Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!occrsh!uokmax!apple!decwrl!ucbvax!spider.co.uk!keith From: keith@spider.co.uk (Keith Mitchell) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip Subject: Re: Internet routing Europe - USA -} Europe... Message-ID: <20085.9009101214@orbweb.spider.co.uk> Date: 10 Sep 90 11:14:23 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 78 In: > Message-ID: <1990Sep7.052615.1896@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au> > > hung out to dry. Nobody with any sense give a DAMN. Religious warfare > is for celtic and rangers fans and the Jihad mob only. George is right. Getting bogged down in the relative merits of Coloured Book vs TCP/IP protocol stacks and applications is a waste of time. Until the glorious (?) day when OSI is universal, there is room for all. This is the approach taken in places like Australia and Scandanavia, and I think it is very unfortunate that the UK does not take this catholic approach to networking. Are we the only country in the world where use of TCP/IP is *banned* on our national research network ? Just because we drive on the left-hand side is not a reason for outlawing non-right-hand drive vehicles from British roads. Even though we want IP over JANET, this does not mean we want to scrap the existing setup. This would be daft when Spider are vendors of both Coloured Book and TCP/IP products. Desire for IP connectivity comes not from the intrinsic properties of any protocols, but from two practical details of their use: - Then only way you can can application-transparent international connectivity NOW is to use TCP/IP. - There are lot more people in the world using TCP/IP than Coloured books. So, lets keep Coloured Books on JANET, fine. But can we get at the existing international networking infrastructure too, please, without having to use UUCP (commercial) or go through an overloaded non-transparent gateway (academic). It's not like we aren't prepared to pay our way - international communications are very important to Spider's business, and many other UK firms too. All we want to do is share the costs a bit. Seems that being prepared to do this ourselves is the best thing we can do if the powers that be won't let us in. Let's hope the JNT's "DoD" working group makes things happen in months, rather than sometime. It's difficult for Spider to influence the JNT when we are not members of JANET, but then it would be a lot easier to justify the expense of joining if we got TCP/IP connectivity as well. Setting up Coloured Book software on our own network when everything else is TCP/IP is a hassle. Talking about powers that be, UKUUG (who have UKC run UKNET for them) have been very quiet about all this. Are we going to have to set up a UKIPUG ? What Brian says about hooking up now is serious. You want a pilot IP link over the PDN, ask me. To prove how serious: > Anybody asked PSI or any of the other commercial IP networks to cost > a service in the UK? I'm asking. I've already enquired of UUNET, would PSI or anyone else care to comment ? Disclaimer time - the above, of course, represents what I think Spider policy should be rather than what it necessarily is. Keith Mitchell Spider Systems Ltd. Spider Systems Inc. Spider Park 12 New England Executive Park Stanwell Street Burlington Edinburgh, Scotland MA 01803 Phone: +44 31-554 9424 +1 (617) 270-3510 Fax: +44 31-554 0649 keith@spider.co.uk keith%spider.co.uk@uunet.uu.net ...!uunet!ukc!spider!keith zspz01%uk.ac.ed.castle@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk P.S. (:-) As someone who lives and works in Leith, let me assure you "The Proclaimers" come not from here, but sunny Fife, just across the river.