Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!wuarchive!udel!burdvax!dave From: dave@PRC.Unisys.COM (David Lee Matuszek) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: Where does UNIX fit in a graphically-based computer world? Message-ID: <14894@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> Date: 6 Sep 90 14:39:47 GMT References: <1990Sep5.202652.700@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> Sender: news@PRC.Unisys.COM Organization: Unisys Corporation, Paoli Research Center; Paoli, PA Lines: 135 In article <1990Sep5.202652.700@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> anthonjw@clutx.clarkson.edu (Jason W. Anthony) writes: > >I recently unwillingly got invloved in a Mac vs IBM argument, and I left > with an interesting question in mind... The person I was discussing this with said "the world is going UNIX" and the IBM was more UNIX like. Now, > I feel the world is going toward a graphically-based approach to computing >[...] >But, I began to wonder how UNIX would fit into such a world.... From my (admittedly personal and therefore limited) viewpoint, you are both completely correct. The world is indeed going UNIX. I see DOS as more UNIX-like, but that's because I'm a Mac enthusiast; people who know both systems see more differences than similarities between DOS and UNIX. (I know UNIX but only a little DOS.) UNIX is a big, powerful operating system, with everything you could want, except user-friendliness. Apple's A/UX is supposed to provide a user-friendly front-end to UNIX, but only on hardware well out of my price range. I think NeXT does the same, for a UNIX variant whose name escapes me at the moment. The world is also going to graphical interfaces. It's just a matter of putting one onto UNIX. There are several available, but the one called X is clearly winning out. And it will continue to win out, whether it deserves to or not, for one big reason--it's public domain, and therefore free. >It would seem UNIX would be in direct opposition to a "GUI" (Graphical >User Interface) world since it is completely character-based and also >very cryptic. At the bottom, it's all bit-based anyway. And as for cryptic, let me assure you that X is entirely compatible with UNIX in this respect. (Not that the Macintosh Toolbox is a model of clarity....) X, like UNIX, subscribes to the belief that flexibility is more important than simplicity. It's intended to run on any UNIX machine, anywhere. This makes it highly desirable to people who want to run their programs on a variety of platforms (i.e. almost everyone), but the cost, in terms of both complexity and efficiency, is very high. As part of this flexibility, X itself doesn't provide "widgets" such as menus, buttons, graphics, etc.--it's just a windowing system. Widgets are an add-on. The Athena widget set seems to be the most popular, as far as I can see. I've also used HP widgets. The next level is the GUI. The one I use every day on my Sun is called TAE+; it's main advantage is that it was developed for the government (specifically, NASA), so it is free for any government-related work. The GUI that seems to be winning the race in the IBM/DOS world is Motif. (Motif uses Athena widgets.) Motif is also being ported to the UNIX world, but I don't know how that's coming along--it hasn't appeared on my Sun yet. So here's the way it is: you start with C; on top of that you build UNIX; on top of that you build X; on top of that you build a widget set; on top of that you build a GUI. I'm sure I'll be flamed for saying this, but in my opinion the IBM world has more speed freaks in it than the Mac world, and this is why. They need all the speed and all the memory they can get in order to make their GUIs usable. BTW, things like QuickDraw don't come into this. If you want to draw pictures, that's another thing entirely. >[...] >So, if the world is indeed going GUI, will UNIX fade away, or will >there try to be some kind of combination of the two? What I've described is definitely a combination of the two. It's real, it's here, and it's taking over. Whether we like it or not, I am convinced that this is the future. Personally, I don't like it. The Mac is, IMHO, obviously superior technology. Unfortunately for me and the computing world, Apple has behaved to maximize their own profits, rather than to be noble and make the technology available to everyone. I don't blame them. I would have, too. The whole point of a company is to make money. Patent laws and copyright laws were designed to encourage innovation and technology, not to restrict it, but those laws are ancient and in serious need of overhauling, if they are to serve that function in the modern world. But that's the subject of an entirely different flame.... > Also, why >have we seen very little GUI in the mainframe world? >[...] >Or is GUI simply a personal computer thing? Um...what? I'm not sure what you mean here. To me the mainframe is that big thing that sits in another room, and does heavy computation if I need it. The graphics are done on my workstation. Specifically, I'm on a Sun, networked to two VAXen, a whole buncha other Suns, and a couple of other stray things. I used to do batch processing on mainframes, and a GUI would certainly be out of place there. And if the mainframe is interactive, why would I want it doing my graphics? Either I'm connected via a terminal that's too dumb to do graphics anyway, or I'm on a workstation that's smart enough to do its own graphics, and can use the bandwidth to the mainframe for other things. Anyway, if I want to use a mainframe to do graphics at a workstation, X will certainly support it. Or do you just mean, why haven't mainframe *manufacturers* gotten more into GUIs? I have no inside information about that. >[...] I am >interested in people who use the Mac and who use or have used UNIX, >since they would see the fruits of both. You found one; any more out there? I use a Mac at home and a UNIX machine at work, and have for five years now. The last year or so I've had X on my UNIX machine. I love the Mac and can live with UNIX. (C + UNIX + X + Athena + Motif) is a few years behind the Mac, but it progresses, and some such chimera will eventually pass the Mac, since Apple has made a closed marketplace for itself, isolated from the rest of the world. ----- Most of what's above is my opinion of where things are now, and will be in the future. I'd love to hear opinions and predictions from other people with experience in both worlds. Some of what's above is whether I like it or not. I have my likes and dislikes, you have yours; if you gotta flame, mail it to me personally and let's keep it off the net. -- Dave Matuszek (dave@prc.unisys.com) -- Unisys Corp. / Paoli Research Center / PO Box 517 / Paoli PA 19301 -- Any resemblance between my opinions and those of my employer is improbable. < You can put a mouse on an IBM. And you can put a radio on a motorcycle. >