Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ctbilbo!ray
From: ray@ctbilbo.UUCP (Ray Ward)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.internals
Subject: Re: c.u.wizards vs. c.u.internals
Summary: One more time, with feeling...
Message-ID: <121@ctbilbo.UUCP>
Date: 12 Sep 90 01:04:53 GMT
References: <18533@rpp386.cactus.org> <1053@lot.ACA.MCC.COM> <887@iiasa.UUCP>
Lines: 59


In article <887@iiasa.UUCP>, wnp@iiasa.AT (wolf paul) writes:
> In article <1053@lot.ACA.MCC.COM> ables@lot.ACA.MCC.COM (King Ables) writes:
> )I see the point that Doug and John have made concerning the name 

Like many working contributors to comp.unix.wizards, my time available for
news of any kind varies inversely with my workload.  However, comp.unix.wizards 
has always been one of the top two groups on my list.  I was surprized to
see that the name had been changed.  I was disappointed with the replacement.

There is a need for a two-level hierarchy of groups for UNIX questions/
problems/observations:  one for novices and general population, and a
higher-level group for those self-assured of their experience and competence.
The former was supplied by c.u.questions and the latter, admirably, I
thought, by c.u.wizards.  The name "wizards" was sufficiently intimidating
to keep novice posting to a minimum, while not limiting the discussions
to "internals."  ( How might one know when a problem is caused by "internals" 
or by something else?  You may have only a problem unanswered in c.u.q,
and no clue whatever. )

I have seen no discussion in this group about changing the name.  I have
not seen any notice in this group of a proposed name change.  There may
have been notice given in the frequently asked questions stuff; I almost
never read that:  I have no need to reread answers to questions I would
not ask.  At any rate, I highly resent having the name changed, and then
finding out about it after the fact with no opportunity to contribute to
the discussion.  My resentment is heightened by the apparent stupidity
of the change.

I for one would support another round of discussion and another vote
to change the name back; this time informing all those involved.  If
you want to add a group strictly for internals, do so.  Don't destroy
one of the most useful and informative groups on the net.

PS.  I noted in this thread some flames directed toward Doug Gwyn and
others who do not feel they can continue to post to this new group.
Yes, Doug -- as I, and some others who post to this group -- is occasionally
gruff or short in his postings.  Just the other day I read in c.u.q
a posting by some tyro that should have been in lang.c, who did not
even know the difference between a strcpy() to an uninitialized pointer
as opposed to an array of char.  I barely suppressed the urge to "RTFM"
with a correct follow-up, and continued on.  I came upon a very long,
patient, and detailed answer to what I had regarded as an annoyingly
ignorant posting:  by Doug Gwyn.  I was struck that someone prominent
enough to receive a kudo from K&R in their 2d Edition would take that
much effort to answer so elementary a question.  I saved Doug's
answer in a file named "humblepie," and adjusted my attitude (again).
I would suggest that the flamers re-assess their own attitudes;
changes to the newsgroup that drive away very valuable contributors
and that offer nothing in compensation are very likely changes for the
worse.



-- 
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Ray Ward                                          Email:  uunet!ctbilbo!ray  
Voice:  (214) 991-8338x226, (800) 331-7032        Fax  :  (214) 991-8968     
=-=-=-=-  There _are_ simple answers, just no _easy_ ones. -- R.R. -=-=-=-=