Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!usc!snorkelwacker!bloom-beacon!eng.sun.COM!smarks
From: smarks@eng.sun.COM (Stuart Marks, There go I but for the grace of Root)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: OSF statements about OPEN LOOK
Message-ID: <9009122050.AA07353@trantor.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: 12 Sep 90 20:50:54 GMT
References: <999@richsun.cpg.trs.reuter.com>
Sender: daemon@athena.mit.edu (Mr Background)
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 66


emike@cpg.trs.reuter.com (E. Mike Durbin) writes:
| The problem is that XView applications DEPEND on the window manager dismissing
| popup, and even worse, killing the application.  For example, Sun's Calendar
| Manager will use a popup window for entering an appointment.  With out OLWM,
| there is NO WAY do dismiss this popup if it defaults to being push pinned in!
| In X, if you zap any client window, XLIB DOES AN EXIT, killing the entire
| application.
| 
| This is real serious if you have a multi-threaded application that uses popups
| for lots of windows.  Without OLWM, the screen becomes cluttered with popups
| than can NEVER be dismissed!
| 
| Also, there is NO WAY to quit the application without OLWM or zapping
| the window.
| This, to me, it the only architectural flaw with Open Look (or is it
| with XView?).

The above statements are emphatically NOT true.  XView does not require
OLWM to dismiss or quit windows.

XView applications depend on the existence of an ICCCM-compliant window
manager for dismissing and quitting.  XView uses the WM_DELETE_WINDOW
protocol (described in sections 4.2.8 and 5.2.2 of the ICCCM) to implement
these functions.  The ICCCM is an X Consortium standard.  It is not Sun- or
OPEN LOOK-specific in any way.

Any window manager that has a user interface for sending the
WM_DELETE_WINDOW message can use it to dismiss or quit XView applications.
Twm and friends, for example, have such a facility.  Here are the relevant
sections of my .twmrc file:

	LeftTitleButton "menu12" = f.menu "windowops"
	RightTitleButton "opendot" = f.delete

	menu "windowops"
	{
	"Window Menu"		f.title
	"Delete"		f.delete
	"Kill"			f.destroy
	"Save"			f.saveyourself
	"Refresh"		f.refresh
	# ...
	}

You can invoke the delete function by bringing up the "Window Menu" and
hitting Delete or by hitting the button next to twm's resize handle.  It
works perfectly fine for dismissing XView popups and for quitting XView
applications safely.  For example, if you have unsaved edits in an XView
text editor, and you invoke the Delete function, the editor will raise a
confirmer to allow you to cancel the quit.

Also, mwm's f.kill function will send WM_DELETE_WINDOW if the application
has asked for it.  This function is bound to the Close item on the mwm's
Window Menu, so it even does what you'd expect it to do.  I imagine that
dxwm and gwm also have some facility for sending WM_DELETE_WINDOW messages.

Once again, XView has no dependency on any particular window manager for
supporting the dismiss and quit operations.  XView works just fine with
any ICCCM-compliant window manager.

s'marks

Stuart W. Marks			ARPA: smarks@eng.sun.com
Window Systems Group		UUCP: sun!smarks
Sun Microsystems, Inc.