Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!husc6!encore!zelig!jdarcy From: jdarcy@encore.com (Jeff d'Arcy) Newsgroups: comp.sys.encore Subject: Re: Umax 4.3 virtual memory problem Keywords: Umax, paging, cow, bug Message-ID: Date: 19 Sep 90 12:38:35 GMT References: <1479@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au> <59@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> Sender: news@Encore.COM Lines: 92 Before I get started, I'd like to remind everyone that I'm posting on my own time and do not IN ANY MANNER OR CAPACITY speak for Encore. Just think of me as another UMAX user who just happens to write the OS. :-) phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes: >I disagree. Ever since we got 4.0.0 we have been complaining about the >absolutely rotten VM performance. All we ever got from Encore was "we >don't see the problem." It is NICE....REALLY NICE....to know that we are >not alone, that this is not a fluke but a genuine wide-spread bug. Without >this person's posting, I would still be in the dark. So why didn't YOU post? Now that there's a bandwagon to jump onto you're pretty quick to flame Encore, but I didn't see you doing anything to get the ball rolling. You may even remember the last time people started bashing Encore in this group; I posted an article asking for suggestions on how we could use this newsgroup to our customers' best advantage. I got two lukewarm responses and deafening silence from everyone else. If you're not part of the solution. . . >So in the hopes of sustaining and increasing future sales, you sacrifice >your current customers? Seems like a pretty bad tradeoff to me. We're not sacrificing anyone. The chain is simple: sales -> development resources -> bug fixes The conclusion is obvious; no sales, no bug fixes. Maybe no Encore. That's not exactly to our customers' advantage. >Sun distributes something called the "Customer Distributed Bugs List" >(it is VERY thick). I've seen it, and after using Suns I'm not surprised at its thickness. :-) >In this way, >customers can find out about bugs but (presumably) the so-called >"competitors" access to this list is limited. Well, we're not really competitors to Sun, but I'm sure my counterparts at HP-Apollo, MIPS, SGI, etc. have copies. So much for limited access. >Does Encore have anything >equivalent? Sun can afford to do this because they have market share. We don't and therefore can't. In an ideal world of educated customers who didn't get scared at the mere mention of a system crash and competitors who would respond in kind instead of taking the opportunity to slime us in their sales presentations, I'd be all for an open bug list. However, we don't live in such a world. >|>Obviously I can't comment on the availability of future releases, and I >|>honestly don't know the status of this *particular* problem. What I can >|>say is that we have been aware of UMAX 4.3 VM problems for some time (we >|>use it in-house too) and have no reason except resources to avoid fixing >|>them. > >Then FIX them! I'm pretty fed up with the problem at this point. >If this computer didn't use whiz-bang 20 layer interleaved super-duper >high-speed memory that costs more than my house, I'd just go buy more >memory..... Just that simple, eh? Fix them. Why didn't we think of that? Do you really think we're not doing our best to serve our customers, or that we wouldn't like to have the highest-performance, most robust SMP UNIX box in the world? I'm sure that this problem's visibility has caused its priority to rise to the top of the list, but since it's a complex problem affecting a large and critical portion of the kernel, I'm sure you can appreciate that our turnaround will not be instantaneous. We do the best we can with the resources we have. If you really want to help, how about buying a few more Multimaxes so we'll have the revenue to justify hiring more engineers? :-) >It is also a fact of life that serious problems which go unfixed for >a long time tend to get customers very angry and tend to make them wish >that they were not your customers. Not that I am personally at that >point...........yet! It is also a fact of life that many people like to complain and make threats, especially when they feel their target is unable to defend itself, but they don't do much to help the situation. Gordon Irland's post was well-researched and very reasonable, and we at Encore most sincerely appreciate his efforts. I just wish we had more customers like him. Again, for those who missed it at the top: I DO NOT speak for Encore AT ALL. I'm posting on my own time as I private individual who uses UMAX and just happens (as if by coincidence) to work at Encore. -- Jeff d'Arcy, Generic Software Engineer - jdarcy@encore.com Nothing was ever achieved by accepting reality