Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!apple!chuq
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: System problems
Keywords: Help
Message-ID: <44919@apple.Apple.COM>
Date: 18 Sep 90 13:43:02 GMT
References: <9435@uhccux.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu>
Organization: Under that bluish-grey looking rock
Lines: 81

michaelh@uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael A. Hoffhines) writes:
>Of late, I have been experiencing a problem of 'creeping failures'. Primarily,
>unexpected quitting from Word 4.0 and White Knight 11.06 with error number
>1 or 2 upon launching.

I usually see this kind of behavior when I've corrupted my System file. Lots
of random weird stuff happening -- this means (everyone repeat after me):

	It's time to REINSTALL! (can you tell I do tech support?)

>This has been a problem in the past that goes away only temporarily
>after I refresh the file with an original copy. Now Fast Back II simply hangs 
>when it gets to the last file of a back-up when in the past FBII has worked 
>fine.

This may mean you have corrupted directories and whatever, too. 

>I am tired of tip-toeing around this fragile beast and have run out of ideas
>as to what to try. Any thoughtful suggestions gladly entertained.

Good for you. I never trust my data to a system I'm not convinced is solid.
Reinstalling doesn't take long and is a great way to get you to a known
state fast.

>On the software side, I have a minimum of INITs (Superclock 3.9, Suitcase II 
>1.2.6, Disinfectant, and AfterDark 2.0h). The hardware end looks like: SE/30 
>with 5 M and an external 170 M Wren VI drive from APS.

That looks good.

>I am more and more suspicious of the hard-drive given that the software has
>not changed for some time while frequency of errors continues to rise.

You may not have changed the software, but doesn't imply it's not changed.
System crashes are a great way to watch the System file slowly go through
bitrot if you're not lucky.

Try this:

o Pull out your system disks. Boot from System Tools and then run Disk First
Aid and see what happens.

o If you have SUM, have it check your directory structure. It catches stuff
DFA doesn't.

o If you're paranoid, you can do a low-level test of the disk -- HD SC Setup
lets you verify formatting on supported disks, many other formatters do as
well. I find this is generally overkill. Something corrupts you at that
level, you'll be dead long before this.

o Now, reinstall. It's important -- critical, actually -- that if you think
the System file is corrupted you don't touch it. DO NOT REINSTALL OVER AN
EXISTING SYSTEM FILE if you aren't sure it's okay, so the first thing you
have to do is debless the folder. I do that by opening the system folder
creating an empty folder and copying the finder into it.

o Run the installer. Install the pieces you need. Don't just copy stuff off
the install disks -- you'll end up with stuff on your disks you don't need.
Let the Installer build a more compact system file.

o Now, all you need to do is merge what's in your own System Folder with the
new one. The only trick: since the old System file is potentialy corrupt,
anything that's in it is trash -- don't touch it. Once you're sure the new
system folder boots, throw the old system and folder files away. Yes, that
implies that all those neat things you've got stored in the system file are
gone: that's why there's Suitcase. If you copy resources out of a corrupted
file, you may well just copy the corruption with you.

o Note that the Installer installs versions of Times, Helvetica and Courier
whether or not you want them. If you have them in separate suitcases, make
sure you edit them out of the System file. 

Any time you see system flakies, don't tolerate them. Expunge them before
they cost you your data. They don't go away if they're ignored, they get
worse. Better to catch them early and get back to work.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach   <+>   chuq@apple.com   <+>   [This is myself speaking]

mumble..mumble...mumble...mumbleLemieuxSCORE!!!!!!!...mumble...mumble..mumble