Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!cbnews!military From: dps@otter.hpl.hp.com (Duncan Smith) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: The Dam Busters (was Re: Strategic targets in Iraq) Message-ID: <1990Sep13.012100.16358@cbnews.att.com> Date: 13 Sep 90 01:21:00 GMT References: <1990Sep11.024301.14007@cbnews.att.com> Sender: military@cbnews.att.com (William B. Thacker) Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK. Lines: 73 Approved: military@att.att.com From: dps@otter.hpl.hp.com (Duncan Smith) From: paj >5,000 rpm for stability and extra bounce before being dropped. The Err ... That's faster than a Winchester hard disc! 500rpm? They are still finding bits of the casing at Chesil beach where they test-dropped from Mosquitos. One almost complete one was found only weeks ago. Incidentally, the date of the raid - 16/7 May 1943 - was the time frame for the film _Memphis Belle_. Do you think it's possible that David Puttnam was nodding in the direction of 617? It's said that he had originally wanted to make a film about a British bomber crew .... Or did the Memphis Belle's 25th mission actually occur on the 17th May, 1943? >bomb. First the six ton "Tallboys" and later the ten ton "Grand >Slams" were dropped on the sort of big reinforced concrete buildings >favoured by the Germans, such as the submarine pens at Brest in >France, and the V1, V2 and V3 (huge underground gun) sites in Germany. The Tallboys were dropped DOWN THE SHAFTS of the V3's at Watten, northern France. THAT'S precision bombing. Were Tallboys dropped on V1 and V2 sites? I think 617 led the raid on Peenemunde as pathfinders (from memory), but that was their only involvement with the other V-weapons. 617 also took out the Bielefeld viaduct. At the end of the war they were about to go to Japan to have a crack at some bridges. >They also used Grand Slams and Tallboys on the Tirpitz in Norway, Tallboys only. I don't think they hit her. The squadron describe the rapid deployment of smoke generators during the raid - one or two Tallboys were dropped after sighting on the masts, the last remaining visible part of the ship. One hit the shore. The Tirpitz was eventually disabled by limpet mines planted by the SBS, I think, during a famous raid involving mini submersibles. [mod.note: There were two Tallboy attacks. The first, on 15 Sept.44, scored one hit on the forecastle, leaving Tirpitz unseaworthy. The second attack, 12 Nov 44, scored two or possibly three hits and seven near misses. The hits were very severe, blowing off the side plating and armor for 1/3 of the ship and causing heavy flooding; all struck on the ship's port side, and she began listing. The near misses, also to port, blew out the mud which had been dredged up around the Tirpitz to prevent her from sinking, thus facilitating the roll. Within 8 minutes, the list had reached 60 degrees and stabilized. Eight minutes later, C turret's magazine exploded, blowing part of the turret into a crowd of swimming men, and Tirpitz capsized. - Bill ] Incidentally, it was said that you could see the Tirpitz on the bottom of Tromso fjord for many years but a recent travel guide says no longer. Does anyone know the story? I couldn't get that far north last time I was in Norway. This raid was mounted from airfields in Russia. >If I remember rightly, one of the VCs was awarded to Leonard Cheshire, >who led the dams raid. Guy Gibson! Cheshire took over after Gibson died in 1944. He crashed his Mosquito into a low hill in Holland after pathfinding. >Paul. Duncan