Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!ora!ora!daemon
From: gazit%oberon.usc.edu@usc.edu (Hillel)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: men&women: same or different?
Message-ID: <27088@usc.edu>
Date: 12 Sep 90 19:04:53 GMT
References: <9009112047.AA09791@Arezzo.ORC.Olivetti.Com>
Sender: ambar@ora.com (Jean Marie Diaz)
Organization: Nefolet shel nemushot
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Approved: ambar@ora.com

In article <9009112047.AA09791@Arezzo.ORC.Olivetti.Com> jan@orc.olivetti.COM (Jan Parcel) writes:

>The archaeological digs in Europe mentioned in _The_ _Chalice_ and the
>_Blade_, by Riane Eisler, and the way of life of the Native Americans,
>indicates that it is possible to have a workable society that is not
>based on success only for aggressive people.  

Why the examples of non-aggressive societies are always based on *old* societies
that did not leave too many records behind?  Why nobody presents a clear
example, where there is enough data to know how the society *really* worked?

>If a person says that success by brutal competition in business is the
>"best" system solely because it can be, and has been, imposed by
>force, then I reserve the right to use any force to fight against it.
>Including AA, socialism, or anything else.  

The idea behind Affirmative Action is to put men in a situation where
they have to try *harder*, while women can take it more easy.

>If survival of the
>survivor is the ONLY criterion, and morality doesn't enter into it,
>then I have the right to lie, cheat, steal, and anything else to
>change the system, as I am at war with it.

No, you just reinforce the system in a more ugly way.

>The way the world is going right now, it looks
>(subjectively, to me) like the male of the species insists on brutal
>competition.

The way the world is going right now, it looks
(subjectively, to me) like the female of the species insists that the
male of the species will be in brutal competition.

It is done by traditional women who look for success objects,
and it is done by feminist women who try to create a situation
(under a smoke screen of talking about "temporary" solutions)
were men will have to try harder.

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ jan@orc.olivetti.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hillel                                              gazit@cs.duke.edu

"The continuation of earnings gap between men and women, the decimation of
affirmative action in order to protect white men from `reverse discrimination',
the rise of male victories in child custody cases - all of these attest to the
need for a way to galvanize women's opposition and women's power in the 1980s."
            --  ("Caught Looking", Kate Ellis, Barbara O'Dair & Abby Tallmer)