Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: daveh@tekcrl.labs.tek.com (David Hatcher) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Christians abetting Satan? (Was: gulf crisis, spiritual help...) Message-ID: Date: 17 Sep 90 07:50:57 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. Lines: 107 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Forgive me and my insistance on keeping this subject going. But this thread has presented me an opportunity to express what I find most distastful with in the general attitude of the Christian tradition. Being apart of such an attitude is one of the prime reasons why I went to a path other than Christianty. I very much feel that this attitude causes hurt and separation between elements of God's own Creation. Our moderator wrote: > While we would like to avoid making >ultimate judgements against these people, when they are teaching what >we believe to be errors, we have a responsibility to make clear our >differences. When non-Christians do this very same thing though, they are called "Enemies of Christ" or that they are underminding Christianity. This thread has been a wonderful example of such tactics. Why create separation in this way? Isn't there a place where Christians can hold to their beliefs and still allow others to hold to theirs. Must the basic Christian posture be based on one of being opposed to that which is not Christian? What is with in the hearts of those whom are not Christian? Does the Christian even allow themselves the place where they can look? I do not bring this up to make points. I respect Charles too much to stoop to such levels. But I do see a very basic judgemental attitude from many Christians towards folks who hold to beliefs that differ. Even between it's own sects there is that basic judgemental attitude. Personally, I am very sad about this because that basic stance causes separation and hurt between elements of God's own Creation. I feel that Christians would be better off in finding ways in which we all could to come together in love. Instead, many seem bent on keeping a "them vs us" attitude which just breeds separation. And separation already is the cause of pain with in all of our souls. Why be the cause of even more? > But >I don't see how you can suggest that I should not oppose beliefs that ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >I believe to be wrong on issues that I belief matter. All I can do is speek for myself at this point. There are many issues that Christian's hold that I do not agree with. But I do not oppose any of those beliefs that Christians hold dear to their hearts. I have found out that when I do, and I used to, that what I was really doing was holding them in judgement of what "I" have perceived what should or should not be. I see no difference between that and in the general attitude that has come to light with in the responses to a call for a united prayer. In the real world where people are interfacing with each other, this has a very dangerious way of really separating people from each other. I've seen it over and over where a Christian sees another person wearing a crystal and in a flash there is that invisible wall thrown up between them, with that snide remark that invariably follows. Where a moment ago there was a chance of a friendship, now there's a wall of judgement and separation. I do not wear a crystal or anything, but I have had Christians tell me flat out that we could never be good friends because I am not Christian. In their hast to judge me, I have even been called a "newager". And I most definitely am NOT a newager. I feel that this basic posture is one that has its roots in what is a judgemental attitude. And my proof is that because of this posture, people are turning against people. And not because anyone actually did anything to the Christian. But in these cases, the Christian caused the separation because of what to me is that basic judgemental attitude that they hold in their hearts. It's the fruit and all of that that I'm look at here. To set up a though pattern of "I oppose", as presented above by Charles, can not help but place with in a person that funny way of not even wanting to look into the hearts of others to really seeing what they are about. To dangerious. One just might find out that God's presence is really very alive there. Personally, I have found that freeing myself from that sort of tension has allowed me to relate to other people much closer to the way I feel that Christ did. I also feel that that sort of freedom is part of what is being taught in the Sermon on the Mount. David Hatcher In fact one of the great challenges confronting modern Christians is that of experiencing Christ in a non-Christian culture. Precisely because Christianity claims to be a universal religion we cannot shirk this challenge. William Johnston _The Inner Eye Of Love_ [Maybe we mean something different by oppose. I do not suggest that you should be stopped from believing or talking about things contrary to Christinaity. Rather, Christians have a duty to say what they believe, and to answer contrary claims. Part of this duty includes pointing out where things that have been confused with Christianity actually contradict it. This is not in principle different from what you do (including this posting): you argue for your viewpoint. I don't know whether you are an enemy of Christ in your heart. Only God is capable of making that judgement. That you are opposed to some significant Christian teachings however seems simply an observation of fact, which you yourself agree with. --clh]