Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers /100000) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Pagans and Christ (was Re: Christians abetting Satan?) Message-ID: Date: 18 Sep 90 07:44:26 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 82 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu wolves!wolfe@remus.rutgers.edu (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes: >1) The "new age" spiritualist movement is not identical with the > neo-pagan religious movement. Specifically, much of the new age > spiritualism is appended to basic christian belief systems and a fair > number of new agers are churchgoers. IMHO, this hardly makes the new > age people enemies of Christ. I must say this is the first time I heard from a Christian that the New Age movement is not dangerous. Maybe just because I didn't talk about it with non dutch people. I think the new age movement is dangerous because they try to incorporate different beliefs into one entity, just like hinduism tends to do, and are acting like the gnostics that the New Testament warns us so clearly for. That people are churchgoers does of course not say very much (if not nothing) about being a friend of Christ or not. >2) Pagan does not automatically imply Satanic. You all are certainly > welcome to your opinions about the origins and objects of > non-christian religions, but it is offensive and uncharitable to > presume that they are necessarily opposed to the aims of the > Christian traditions. Depends on the definition of Satanic. If you mean, knowingly worshipping Satan, than I agree with this point. But in general the bible tells about the sharp line between the light and the dark, between the kingdom of God and the empire of Satan, which is the earth at the moment. As Christians we are in occupied territory. Everything which is not of Christ is more or less under the influence of Satan, if not part of his empire. By the way, nothing is more dangerous as things that look nice and 'Christian' but are twisted. That are the wolves in sheepclothes and the false prophets the bible speaks about I think. Does not the devil try to mislead us by imitating good things? He knows he cannot trap Christians if it looks too obvious. (see for example the 3 letter of John, about secretely sneeking in of heresy) >3) Pagan does not automatically imply that Christ and the God of > Christianity (however any particular christian chooses to define him) > are not "honored". There are a number of neo-pagan traditions that > honor Christ and the Christian god as deserving of reverence. They > simply hold an additional belief that there are other divinities that > also deserve reverence. >Note carefully: none of this is to imply that the new age or pagan >movements are "christian" in the commonly understood sense of the word. >Nor is it intended to denigrate the faith of any particular Christian >person. I get rather upset when anyone places another person in >opposition to themselves based on wrong information. But we should not forget that Christianity is exclusive, Christ is the only way and no other name is given under the sun for salvation. (2 quotations from somewhere). This does not mean that we should not respect people with other views, but we should not respect the misleadings that Satan is filling the world with. >I will complain slightly by saying that while I know a large number of >"Christians" that will automatically condemn others for having the >"wrong" beliefs, rather fewer of my "Pagan" accquaintances do the same >simply on the basis of religious opinions. (Of course, there are some >pagans who do that, but its probably the same in terms of relative >percentages.) But a pagan beliefe could, just like Hinduism does, have as believe that there are many ways to God, and theirs is just one of them. Then of course they will not condemn others. We should not condemn either, I agree, but that does not mean that we should leave everyone in lies and untruth. We must not press, or become unfriendly, but we must realise that people are *lost forever* without Christ. That is terrible, and we cannot sit still with that knowledge, can we? It would be wrong if we would invent it or be happy with this situation because then we are part of a 'small chosen group'. No I am not happy at all to belong to a small group, and do not feel better because of it. But that is no reason to lose the truth that Jesus told us so clearly that no one comes to the Father then through Him. -- Peter Mutsaers email: muts@fysaj.fys.ruu.nl Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht nmutsaer@ruunsa.fys.ruu.nl Princetonplein 5 tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 3584 CG Utrecht, Netherlands