Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: timh@linus.uucp (Tim Hoogasian) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Pagans and Christ (was Re: Christians abetting Satan?) Message-ID: Date: 18 Sep 90 08:50:13 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: IDE, San Francisco Lines: 111 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article wolves!wolfe@remus.rutgers.edu (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes: >In timh@linus.uucp (Tim Hoogasian) writes: >>--to the moderator: >> >>what have we (Christians) in common with the world? do you think it >>proper for Christians to be joining with Satan? certainly the "New >>Age" pagan movement does not honor Christ, and has expended effort to >>undermine Christ's Church - should we join them now? (i'm not missing >>the point that prayer for avoidance of war -if possible- is appropriate.) > >Not to ignore the rest of Tim's commentary about christian isolationism, ^^^^^^ ????? ^^^^^^^^^ Christians are to be "in the world", but *not* "of the world." We have been called out, so for a Christian to consciously associate himself with a religious movement which runs counter to Christian theology at best suggests that he doesn't have a very solid idea about what he believes, and at worst is rank hypocrisy. >I would like to object strongly to Tim's misinformation. He says: I believe you have some grave misinformation about Christianity as well... >1) The "new age" spiritualist movement is not identical with the > neo-pagan religious movement. Specifically, much of the new age > spiritualism is appended to basic christian belief systems and a fair ^^^^^^^^ (Translation) "Your scriptures are incomplete without our stuff as well..." The Apostles were actively engaged in combatting these notions. > number of new agers are churchgoers. IMHO, this hardly makes the new > age people enemies of Christ. Since when has attending church made anyone a candidate to enter the Kingdom of God? Certainly Christ had quite a lot to say to those who were confident in their religiosity. He called them "a brood of vipers"! Many will say "Lord, Lord, look what we did in Your name", but the Almighty will tell them "Depart from Me, I never knew you." While these people don't consider themselves perhaps antagonists toward Christ, He considers that those who are not *for* Him, are against Him. The Christian recognizes that it doesn't matter what any *human* thinks, (this includes me!) in the final analysis; it's what *God* says that counts. >2) Pagan does not automatically imply Satanic. You all are certainly > welcome to your opinions about the origins and objects of > non-christian religions, but it is offensive and uncharitable to > presume that they are necessarily opposed to the aims of the > Christian traditions. I never said that all pagans were involved in "Satan-worship," though by the yardstick of Christian theology, those who are not Christ's sheep are counted as goats; ultimately, Christianity (which is NOT a "religion", contrary to what many (most?) non-Christians appear to believe) considers that other religions are ultimately traps set up by Satan to turn people away from trusting Christ, and Christ *alone* for their salvation. Christianity does not recognize a "neutral ground". This is what I meant when I said that the world claims that "it's all the same anyway." Christ's claim to Uniqueness, "*I* am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. NO ONE comes to the Father, but through Me," does not allow for any misinterpretation to suggest that there might be multiple "paths." >3) Pagan does not automatically imply that Christ and the God of > Christianity (however any particular christian chooses to define him) > are not "honored". There are a number of neo-pagan traditions that > honor Christ and the Christian god as deserving of reverence. They ^^^^^^^^ > simply hold an additional belief that there are other divinities that > also deserve reverence. I will be the last to question their sincerity in their belief that they wish to "revere" God. However, the Almighty says, "I am God and there is *none* other like Me." >Note carefully: none of this is to imply that the new age or pagan >movements are "christian" in the commonly understood sense of the word. >Nor is it intended to denigrate the faith of any particular Christian >person. I get rather upset when anyone places another person in >opposition to themselves based on wrong information. I haven't misunderstood you, but there *is* a great deal of misinformation about what is "commonly understood" about Christianity. As our moderator noted in another post, "christian" does NOT equal "Christian." >I will complain slightly by saying that while I know a large number of >"Christians" that will automatically condemn others for having the >"wrong" beliefs, rather fewer of my "Pagan" accquaintances do the same >simply on the basis of religious opinions. (Of course, there are some >pagans who do that, but its probably the same in terms of relative >percentages.) Mr. Woodbury, I must impress upon you that while it is not a Christian's (certainly not mine) aim to condemn someone to Hell, it is also imperative that the Christian be firm about delineating the line between worldly religions, and Christianity (again, not a "religion"). Christ did not recognize any other path into the Kingdom of Heaven except through Him. While it is commendable to the pagans that they are not necessarily militantly opposed to Christianity, the Christian cannot reciprocate the notion of "Well, you're ok, too", without com- promising Christianity's most fundamental tenet, that there *is* no other way into Christ's Eternal Kingdom. --- Tim | ARPA: timh@ide.com Hoogasian | UUCP: sun!ide!timh (415) 543-0900 =============================================================================== #define DISCLAIMER "Are you nuts? I don't represent anyone, let alone myself!"