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From: rjc@wookumz.ai.mit.edu (Ray Cromwell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga,comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: 24 bit graphics
Message-ID: <10918@life.ai.mit.edu>
Date: 23 Sep 90 00:29:23 GMT
References: <1990Sep22.222816.28754@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
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In article <1990Sep22.222816.28754@zip.eecs.umich.edu> gilgalad@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Ralph Seguin) writes:
>I think that a large portion of the problem here is that people are
>expecting some sort of magical solution to appear to give us
>24 bit graphics.  I do not think that HAME or DCTV are the answer
>at all, as they are very much a kludge and are CPU intensive.

  Huh? How is HAME and DCTV CPU intensive? Its hardware. Maybe you mean that
they use up memory bandwidth like a 16color HIRES display does.  

>Commodore is obviously aware of what is wanted, and I am sure that
>they are working quite hard at providing a solution.  There is also
>the seeming fact that people want all of this at the same cost as
>the normal Amiga box.  This is nonsense.  If you want 24 bit high
>resolution graphics, YOU MUST PAY!  While it would be nice to have
>a 32 bit chipset, I think that they are quite a ways off.
>In any case, I am pleased with  the dedication that Commodore has.
>

  My question is, can those 24bit high resolution boards animate in real time?
(60fps) And do they offer compression? DCTV seems to compress video real
well for the amount of colors and can animate in real time 24bit without
requiring 7megs of VRAM for animating or holding images.
 By the way, a kludge is anything that gets the job done, and DCTV and HAME
provide short term solutions. Maybe I recommend a IBM+VGA or $10,000 Mac II?

>
>YAHWITTSD (Yet Another Here's What I Think They Should Do 8-)
>
>Someone should produce a 24 bit graphics card (there are quite a
>few companies doing this right now it would seem):
>

  Yes, but there is no device independant graphics library so this is no
different than IBM's CGA/EGA/VGA KLUDGE! (develop code for each board instead
of having the OS do it) If the Amiga is to be a multimedia machine, it needs
to be fast, cheap, and reliable. How do you do a presentating with a video
board than cant do real time animation? (still frames+video recorder)?

>-RISC processor, or 34020 to keep the graphics stuff non-cpu-intensive
>-large dual port memory
>-support for NTSC resolutions
>-support for 8 bpp, 16 bpp, 24 bpp
>-support for user upgradeable memory to say 16 megs of video memory
>-support for interlaced and non-interlaced displays
>(24 bit images are quite large after all)
>-support for high resolutions with additional memory in the board
>	-say up to 1600x1280 (this would certainly appease quite a
>	few people)
>- BNC connector, RCA connector and RGB connectors for multiple outputs
>- software-wise there should only be the device driver stuff, since
>Commodore is going to take care of the niceties of having Retargetable
>Graphics.

  The only thing Commodore should do is develop a seperate retargetable
graphics library and define a standard. The rest should be left up to
third parties. Why must Commodore always be the one to do everything?
'Commodore should make a DSP' , 'Commodore should make a 24bit board',
'Commodore should upgrade the custom chips to 32bit color and megapixels'
  
I see nothing wrong with things like Ham-E, DCTV, or the Video Toaster.
They are not kludges in my mind, merely hardware accesories like a Digitizer.
I don't think they promise 'real' 24bit video with 34010's or anything.
  By the way, what is 'Real 24bit video' anyway? Still pictures like
VGA? 16.7 million colors? How many have to be displayable at once to be
considered 'Real 24bit'? If DCTV or HAM-E can get just as good results
and save memory, at 1/2-1/3 cost then there's nothing wrong with them.
If the Amiga gets something like QuickDraw and expensive 24bit boards
then the Amiga system+video hardware will be around the price of an
equivelent IBM or MAC system, so what would be a consumer's motivation
to buy an AMiga then? Not the price, and certainly not the software base.