Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: garyh@crash.cts.com (Gary Hipp) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sorry folks, it's NOT all relative. Message-ID: Date: 26 Sep 90 08:25:56 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA Lines: 84 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article daveh@tekcrl.labs.tek.com (David Hatcher) writes: > > Everything boils down to the following quotes. So to keep this posting > short and the subject focused I am passing over all of the other stuff > that Tim wrote. > >In article timh@linus.uucp (Tim Hoogasian) writes: >>I noted in another post that by Christ's yardstick, this is a moot point. >>Christ claimed Uniqueness: "*I* am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. NO >>ONE comes to the Father, but by Me." > > And.... >> But on the other hand, let us just >>suppose for a moment that what Christ says about being the ONLY way is >>the literal truth. What position does that then place the Christian in >>when he comes in contact with those who suggest that it is NOT the truth? I don't believe it would place the Christian in any different position other than possibly not being able to respond convincingly. The Christian is still saved by the grace of God through the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. By denying that He is the only way..., you must also deny the aspect of Savior and Lord. > I've been wondering the same thing, especially when there are so many > from other spiritual traditions who also know and live with in > the Grace and Glory of God just as much an *any* Christian does. Who do you know (or should I say what recognizable groups) that live within the the Grace and Glory of God apart from being a Christian? The Bible recognizes what is known as common grace, "...for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."-Matt.5:45. This is distinct from saving grace and living within the glory of God which comes only through believing in Christ. > How could this be possible when the popular "literal interpretation" > says otherwise? Think perhaps that there is a *spiritual* > interpretation here that can not be seen because of a blindness > caused by a focus on only the literal interpretation? I do. Couldn't it be popular because it's true? The blindness not to believe was in every Christian before he saw that the literal interpretation was true. "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."--IICor.4:3,4. > And rather the Christian likes it or not, people all over the world > who are not Christian are ALSO very much aware of the presence of God, > AND living with in His Grace and Glory. So, yes, I agree with you in > that many Christians may be put into a position where they have to > rethink what they believe is and what is not truth. Any Christian will agree to everyone's awareness of God. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who supress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for god made it evident to them.--Rom.1:18,19. Now, I must ask, how are these non-Christians living within His grace and glory? By what standard of measure? By what authority do you derive this assumption? I ask this to find out the alternative of literal Biblical belief which is superior and worthy of rethinking what I (we) believe. Is the question now, what is truth? > The jest of all of this is that God works in many wonderious ways. > And some of those ways in which God works just may not be with in > the bounds that most (not all) Christians are familiar with. > The Glories and Grace of God are boundless. Boundless has no bounds. > And neither does God. I point to the saints and ordinary people of > religions other than Christianity whom ALSO know God as proof of > that point. > > David Hatcher > The glories and grace of God are boundless through Jesus Christ. Also boundless is God's judgement and wrath. I am relatively new to the net, so I don't know you very well yet, but am willing to dialog with you. I have one further question. Since God is holy, what provision for sin does a non Christian have? Gary Hipp