Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!bu.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!udel!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jm7e+ From: jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Re: New (Still Unofficial but Everyone Knows They Exist) Macs Message-ID: Date: 2 Oct 90 18:28:16 GMT References: <9009290715.aa09290@generic.UUCP>, <1990Oct1.195457.24180@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: Computing Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 126 In-Reply-To: <1990Oct1.195457.24180@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> dcw@lcs.mit.edu (David C. Whitney) writes: > In article <9009290715.aa09290@generic.UUCP> sb@pnet91.UUCP (Stephen Brown) wr\ > ites: >>Isn't it funny that Apple is bringing out a low cost Macintosh. And its colour >>too. And its rumoured that they're bringing out AppleWorks for the Mac. And if >>I recall, the low cost Mac will have Apple II compatibility... on a card. >> >>Well, isn't that sweet. > >I think it is. > >>There are a number of interpetations one can make. But it looks like they are >>....... integrated software. But what does that mean??? > > It just might mean that Apple // folks will have Mac compatability. It > really depends on what sort of machine you want to call an Apple //. > If thing can boot my GS/OS disk, then I'd call it a useable Apple // > (GS). > > If I have a machine in front of me that can run Apple // stuff, then > I'm happy. I have Apple // stuff. I've written Apple // stuff > (although no GS stuff). That's one major point against the idea. > A combo machine is not something to have a stroke over, it just might > mean the revival of the //. .... The publishing > houses are going to take note that a large segment of the population > owns one os these babies. No, they won't. The way the machine is packaged, the //e emulation is an option, purchased seperately at a cost. It also won't be available until after the Mac LC has been out for a while. This is a TOKEN gesture. It is not an option that Apple expects people to go for unless they have some specific reason to have the compatibility, like educators. New users will not be interested, and Apple will not try to change their minds. > What the hell > difference does it make what the hardware is made of if it can run > your software? It can't run my software. It won't run the //gs software I have worked on, and most probably will choke on many of the older ][ applications that used hardware hacks to make things work. Besides, there ain't no joystick on a Mac. And a low-cost Mac is a trap, like the SE or the Plus. You cannot do any real development on it. The screen is too small, the configuration and speed is too low. It's a sucker-play to get you to buy a Mac //ci. BTW...You say you have a IIfx and a Sparc (I have a Sparc as well). Did you pay for these things? Do you know how much more was paid for the Mac than the Sparc? > If Apple > stopped supporting 680x0 machines and popped right over to 88000 (as > most speculate they will do in a year or 2), then it won't matter > worth a damn to anyone....Emulating a 680x0 on an 88000 will be a > piece of cake Don't count on it. The overhead will be enourmous, and probably more effort than any sane developer would ever want to take on. Simulating an entire CISC instruction set on a RISC chip? Get outta town!!!!! > won't see any revolts from the Mac crowd. But the point of changing architectures is so that binaries can be written for a different chip. What happens when all the software of the future is for the 88000 only? All the suckers who still have 680x0 macs are out in the cold, and suckers who bought the emulation package for the new machines now don't need to emulate anything anymore. > So now, you're whining that all this great Apple // hardware won't > work in the new machine. This isn't whining. No new software will be written for the //gs because apple is for all purposes replacing it with this new mac. Instead of augmenting the software market for the //gs, they are smothering it. And those people who don't throw out their //gs's and buy macs will be hacking without company support. And as far as 8-bit software goes, new software will be written for the new machine; Mac, not 8-bit apple, because all Mac LC's run Mac software, but not all Mac LC's will have Apple // emulation in them. This way, educators with investments in Apple //e's and such are not cut off, but are given an easy migration to the mac platform. The industry will follow this route. Those of us who wish to remain loyal to our old machines, however, are left in the dust. The // line had lots of potential to be competitive in today's market with performance, software, and an ingenius OS. This, however, is being nipped in the bud by Apple Computer. You're damned right I'm angry for this. > the ultimate GS upgrade - it now runs Mac stuff. What?!?!?!? UPGRADE????? Do you really think Apple will give a discount for trading in a //gs for a Mac? Get Real!!! Sorry, friend, you're gonna have to purchase that thing full-price!! I agree that we should see the stuff before making final judgements, but I think it is clear that no new // hardware will ever be produced, like IBM will never make another RT, and Sun will never make another Sun 3. But Macs and //gs's don't run non-unique portable OS's like Unix. And the //gs had potential, desperately in want of a standard manufacturer's configuration of speed and VGA style graphics. This could have been delivered at minimal cost, as pioneered by third parties. But after laying down lots of hints at Kansasfests and other places, Apple has indeed never had the intention of boosting the machine to the next level. > > -- > Dave Whitney | I wrote Z-Link and BinSCII. Send me bug > Computer Science MIT 1990 | reports. I need a job. Send me an offer. > dcw@goldilocks.lcs.mit.edu | My opinions, you hear? MINE! > dcw@athena.mit.edu | "...we came in?" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | |jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| |a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software| opinions, alone. | |staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U.| | Ya Gotta Love It. | -----------------------------------------------------------------------