Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!decwrl!ucbvax!UTCVM.BITNET!MQUINN From: MQUINN@UTCVM.BITNET Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Subject: Re: Woz giveth, Scully taketh away Message-ID: <9010040151.AA28593@apple.com> Date: 3 Oct 90 23:08:48 GMT References: Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: The Internet Lines: 80 On Mon, 1 Oct 90 07:38:03 GMT BBS Administration said: >In article <5658@mace.cc.purdue.edu> asd@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Kareth) writes: >"the enemy." These comments about how "if my next computer isn't an Apple >II, it won't be an Apple" really impressed me. Maybe "impressed" isn't >the right word, however. Well, I think -part- of the reason people say that is because, if Apple drops the //, then how can we be sure they won't drop the Mac in the Future? Another reason people say that is because, if Apple isn't going to support them, they aren't going to support Apple. >me well and I use it every day. For people to say that because Apple is >not going to support their machine any longer and that buying a machine from >that same company is not a possibility is, to me, both shortsighted and >ignorant. (You better be wearing your asbestos suit when saying that in this place.) I don't think it's ignorant to abandon a company that no longer supports the product you spent so much money on. How do you know they won't do the same for the next product you buy from them? Why should someone support a company that keeps promising and promising support and never delivers it? Also, I think a big part of the reason Apple II people don't want a Mac is because the Mac and the Apple II are to RADICALLY different computers. Apple II people generally, don't like to have their hand held when working with an application. They like to be able to get 'inside' the computer (the monitor, AppleSoft) and have absolute control over it. This is close to impossible to do on a Mac, even with that 'debug' init. The Mac has no built-in ROM character set, so everything HAS to be done with graphics, even if you're emulating characters, which, drastically, slows down response time. An the Apple II's, if you want to quit a program, you hit a key, and, with most programs, you are immediately at the Applesoft prompt, even before you have a chance to lift your finger off the key. With the mac, you have to select Quit from the file menu, wait for that application to shut down, wait for the finder to load, wait for the icons to be drawn on the screen and wait for any windows left open to be drawn. >When I saw the number of software and hardware solutions >available for the Mac, and how long it has been around, I thought it would >be a good choice. I think that still holds true today (though the new >NeXT does offer some serious competition) and thus find it difficult to >understand why people have this attitude towards the Mac. I thought the same thing of my GS back in '87 when I got it, and it doesn't look like it's going to be around much longer (I'm still hoping they're going to miraculously start supporting it). People don't really have an attitude towards the MAC, it's towards Apple, the company. They sold us our //'s, now they're not supporting them anymore and they're wanting us to spend megabucks on a computer that we don't really like. I, personally, don't dislike the Mac, I just like using Apple //'s MUCH more. >Apple II. I was there, I moved on, why can't everyone? I, personally, wouldn't call it 'moving on', but 'moving over'. The Apple // is overpriced as it is, and the price of the Mac is just outrageous if I get one comparable to my GS. The Apple // is more of a hackers machine. I like to get down inside and get my hands dirty, get inside programs and see what makes them tick and experiment with hardware calls, softswitches, and the like, which is close to impossible to do in a 'protected graphic shell'. If I wasn't a programmer and didn't know as much about computers as I do, I'd probably like the Mac, but when something goes wrong, it's not nearly as easy to deal with on the Mac as it is a //. On a two, I can hack out a patch to fix whatever went wrong, hack a basic program and mess around with data files and figure out why one might not work, fix it and move on etc. etc. > >Hoping to be enlightened, > >-- John > > Alchemy Software Designs | INET: {bbs, gumby}@alchemy.UUCP | Begins Now >-------------------+---------+-------------------------------------+----------- >Communique On-line | +1-714-243-7150 {3, 12, 24, 96HST} Bps. 8-N-1 | Next Wave: >Information System | Alchemy Software Designs Support System | Communique ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | This is your brain... | BITNET-- mquinn@utcvm | | This is your brain on drugs... | pro-line: | | This is your brain on whole wheat.| mquinn@pro-gsplus.cts.com | |____________________________________|_______________________________|