Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!ucivax!ucla-cs!ucla-seas!JPRICE@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu From: jprice@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu (John Price) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system Subject: Re: It's off until first half of '91 Message-ID: <0093D634.35CC6EA0@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu> Date: 28 Sep 90 17:22:10 GMT References: <0093D408.262D5B40@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu>,<1027@mdavcr.UUCP> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Reply-To: jprice@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu (John Price) Organization: UCLA Particle Physics Research Group Lines: 82 In article <1027@mdavcr.UUCP>, ewm@mdavcr.UUCP (Eric W. Mitchell) writes: >In article <0093D408.262D5B40@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu> jprice@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu (John Price) writes: {include std.flame} > > >*FLAME ON* Uh oh... > >Back off John. I'll let this one go for now... >Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion/impatience. Absolutely true. >...I think people are entitled to some irritation. That may well be, and I won't deny that Apple has some explaining to do. However, the post I was answering was more like whining than anything else, and I answered it as such. >I totally disagree with your attitude of excusing unprofessional >business practice with this "supplicant" posture of "Oh, No. If I'm not >nice they won't talk to me". Touche. It did come out that way, didn't it? Sometimes, it's hard to rebut someone without seeming to be completely opposed to their point of view. I too am upset at Apple, but whining (yes, whining) at them about it won't make them ship any faster. >Either these companies need to learn a bit about software engineering >and planning, or they should announce such "products" as R&D efforts >with a relatively open-ended schedule. I think the current trends in the software industry indicate that software companies are not going to learn much about keeping timetables, now or in the near future. However, announcing products as "R&D efforts", with "open-ended schedules" will only lead to those timetables slipping further into never-never land. >A big part of the problem is people's expectations that a release date >has some meaning. Software vendors should acknowledge this perception >by talking about their development efforts in a way that makes it clear >that these are VERY approximate. This is exactly what I said in my first post. Well, OK. It's not. It's what I meant, though :) Next time I feel compelled to make such a post, I'll make this more clear. >Personally, I think this is a rather offensive practice. Offensive? That's a bit harsh, I think. Annoying as all hell, maybe, but not offensive. >If I want to >bitch about it, I will go right ahead. If they stop talking to me, >maybe I will buy someone else's product. You certainly have this right, and I wouldn't dream of arguing this with you. >*FLAME OFF* Whew! Just singed a little bit... :) Eric, you have written one of the better-worded flames that I've read on Usenet. You state your case reasonably well, and argue your points accordingly. The post to which I was originally answering did not do either of these things. Instead, he whined about the fact that Apple had postponed the release of system 7 again, with that "same excuse about meeting exacting quality standards" or something like that. This is not a direct quote; I don't have the original article handy. But, that was the major content. My point (which I, admittedly, did not state well), is that *complaining* like this is not going to have much effect. Sure, we all are getting tired of the repeated delays, and yes, we all wish that Apple would pick a deadline and stick to it - *with* the product performing as advertised, of course. The realities of the situation, however, are such that this is not going to happen. Perhaps a major revolution in the software industry would be necessary to change this; I don't pretend to know. Crying about it, however, will certainly not change a thing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Price | Internet: jprice@uclapp.physics.ucla.edu 5-145 Knudsen Hall | BITNET: price@uclaph UCLA Dept. of Physics | DECnet: uclapp::jprice Los Angeles, CA 90024-1547 | YellNet: 213-825-2259 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there is no solution, there is no problem.