Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Iraq - Prophecy fulfilled? Message-ID: Date: 1 Oct 90 00:23:26 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 80 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes: >In article gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes: >>Interesting reading. If in fact this prophecy is to have a modern >>fulfillment, then it is possible that this is the start of some major >>movements in the history of mankind that could lead to the fulfillment >>of history and the coming of our great hope. >> >>We are told to watch the signs of the times, and this is certainly >>prudent. >We are also specifically warned against trying to predict times >and places. Matt, puuhleeze!! No where did I imply that we should start setting a date. I do not believe in setting dates. In fact, I'm quite content to leave the date setting to our Father. However, watching the signs of the times (or the times of the season) is not only prudent, we are told to do that. Further, Jesus and the several of the apostles give us signs so that we can judge the times. Do we ignore this? At our own peril. Seeing things grow worse should motivate us to labor the more earnestly in our Father's vineyard. We should find within the events of the day more than ample reason to share the Gospel with others through word and deed (our lifestyle). Now if this is bibliolatry, then I am guilty. But I hardly see how ministering and witnessing can be called bibliolatry. Studying prophecy is also something that is worthy. It is part of the Bible, the Word. We are told to study the Word, to desire the milk of the Word that we might grow. Do we not study parts of the Word simply because it is prophecy? Further, there are prophecies whose fulfillment cannot be said to have already happened in OT times. These include section of Ezekiel and Daniel to name just two of the OT prophetic books. I'm not sure that we can actually sit down and say that a particular event fulfills the prophecy found in Chapter and:verse (;-)). But that should not stop us from examining current events in light of what the text says. My current view of eschatology is that Christians will indeed be here for the tough times. As such, the time of birth pangs that Jesus speaks of in Matt. 24 are something that IMO we will experience. Yet, I do not believe that there will be some point where we can say, "Look, it started (or starts) on this date." Rather, I believe that things will just gradually get worse. And we will realize one day that the full weight of the great tribulation spoken of in the text is upon us--and has been. It is a lot like the coming of night. The night does not fall instantly upon us. The light from the sun slowly wans in the west. The shadows lengthen slowly engulfing objects until the night is finally here. And the dawning is the same way--slowly the sun rises in the east to dispell the dark. The signs of the times are like the signs that we have of the approach of night or morning. All we can say when we see that the sun dips below the horizon is that night is coming. Few, if any of us can state at what actual hour the night is here. But we have enough signs to know that the night is coming. And the same for dawn. (And let's not take this example too far--for it is in some areas limited.) Now, if I'm a farmer working my fields to gather the crops, do I not want to at least give some mind to the time of the day. To do this, do I look to my watch each time? Or do I instead watch the signs of the sun as it journeys across the sky? Having worked on my uncle's farm many a summer, I can tell you that we never looked at a clock while in the field. We became adept at judging the time of day by the movement and position of the sun. And when we saw it at a certain position relative to the western horizon, we knew roughly how much time before it became too dark to work. And when this sign was seen, we labored all the harder. And that is my position on watching the signs of the times. I am of the opinion that as we see the time draw closer we should labor the more. I do not believe that we will know the exact time of the coming of our Blessed Hope. But we can be sure that He will come for that is His promise to us. And God is no liar. Because He lives, Gene Gross