Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: davidh@tektronix.tek.com (David L Hatcher) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: I'd say that is has more to do with knowing God Spiritually Message-ID: Date: 1 Oct 90 01:22:52 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR. Lines: 71 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article timv@cadfx.ccad.uiowa.edu (Timothy VanFosson) writes: >In an article I posted you added this comment: >> [This continues an exchange between David Hatcher and Tim Hoogasian >> on the subject of Christ as the only way. The problem is >>> there are so many >>> from other spiritual traditions who also know and live with in >>> the Grace and Glory of God just as much an *any* Christian does. >> Both Tim and David seem to believe that there is some need for >> rethinking what it means to say that Christ is the only way. --clh] >> > >I don't believe that we need to rethink whether or not Christ is the only >way (in the sense that there may be other ways - which is what I believe >David to be saying.). It is, yet it is not what I'm saying. I'm looking towards the actual act AND experience of knowing and living with in the Grace and Glory of God. That act and experience reaches beyond beliefs. I feel that for Christians the Divine is known through Christ. I also feel that others of other religions also know the Divine. Though the cultures and languages used are different, the inner experience of actually knowing and living with in the Divine is the same. Something that keeps going around and around in my head is my wondering how I can get the Christians here to explain what they are experiencing as they reach past the historical Jesus and onward towards the more spiritual aspect of where God is know through Christ. After all, everyone here keeps saying that the only way to God is throuth Jesus Christ. Yet no one here talks much about God as if they actually know Him by personal experience. Where's the proof of all of these claims? As I understand it, ~with in~ the act of faith for Christians is the act of actually turning ones soul towards Christ. If one *really* wants to explore the realms of where faith leads one, than a person has to also learn to ~open~ their heart & soul to God which just happens to be beyond the historical things we think of when we think of the life of Jesus Christ here on earth. It's that stuff that is with in the essence of the person we call Jesus Christ that is makes Him and the Father as One that I'm trying to focus upon here. Now ~HOW~ does a person ~KNOW~ that they are in fact turning their soul to Christ. What sort of feedback tells them the yes, they have hit the true object of their worshipping. And further more, what is ~unique~ about this spiritual experience that leads many Christians to the feeling that others of other spiritual traditions do not also know and live with in the Glory of that experience. I'm looking past beliefs here and pointing towards what is being experienced as one lives with in the Grace and Glory of God. In short, when going right to the Godhead, how does one know that they have reached God through Jesus Christ? What sort of feedback or spiritual experience lets them know that they are on the right track? OK, now to bring the experience of the Divine down here to earth. Those whom have in some way actually touched God, in the spiritual sense, begin to manifest a different self. They become changed. They change in a way that reflects or mirror some aspect of the Divine that they have touched. This is when the fruit is manifested and can be seen by all. So in looking ~at~ the fruit, and ~how~ it is manifested, what aspect of the Divine that is manifested through a Christian *IS NOT* also manifested with in others of other spiritual paths? David Hatcher Question: There is a difference in the experiences of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Does the Christian experience those 3 Divine Persons in 3 distinct ways, or do they experience them all by a general awareness?