Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!shelby!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: kamphau@oktext.sbc.com (Mark Kamphaus) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Looking at prophecy (was Re: Iraq - Prophecy fulfilled?) Message-ID: Date: 3 Oct 90 06:59:39 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Southwestern Bell Lines: 68 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu >We are also specifically warned against trying to predict times >and places. References please. I see no warning, in fact the prophecy is given for understanding and to be preached for salvation. See Rev 22:7. how can one obey "prophecy" if we are not to study it? Understanding what is to come is a part of it. I have not seen any scripture that says I am not to try to understand it but rather told, "let he who has ears, let him hear." >This sort of thing runs into the danger of worshipping the book >and forgetting its message. Seeing parallels with current >events and scriptural events is one thing, but claiming that >current events are specific fulfillments of prophecy is >generally dangerous nonsense. The notion of "multiple >fulfillment" was presumably invented to cover up the >embarrassment of those who have been too quick to claim >fulfillment of prophecy. Every age seems to have those who >think the run of the mill disasters and wars of the time are >fulfillment of prophecy. >Matthew Huntbach Claiming that certain events are fulfillment of prophecy can be dangerous. It is not, however, nonsense. If prophecy says that there will be a reestablishment of a nation called Isreal and will have a banner with the symbol of the "root of Jesse" who will speak the holy language, and we see a nation formed called Isreal that adopts as its flag the star of David and revives a dead language that has only been used for its religous ceremony called Hebrew, then calling it only coincidence would seem nonsense to me. In regards to multiple fulfillment, I will argue that there has not been fulfillment yet. There has been prefillment or fulfillment in type, that is a symbolic fulfillment through whatever event that provides a physical prophecy of the same event. To understand how an event or object or a person represents the same prophecy of something to come rather than a fulfillment of it see Paul's comments on Sarah and Hagar, and how they are represented by mountains and they prophecy they make. (Galatians 4:21-31.) The prophecy of Sarah's pregnancy not only had an immediate fulfillment but pointed to yet future events to be fulfilled. You have to understand this technique as Paul uses it quite extensively. (other events, circumcision, baptism- like Moses and the red sea, resurrection or in the above, the difference in covenants, slave and free, law and grace.) In fact look at any where in the New Testament Epistles and see if you can find two consecutive chapters that do not either make references about prophecy that has been fulfilled or the manner in which it is to be fulfilled so that the reader will know what is to happen. It just seems such a strange perspective that modern christians feel compelled not to take the same view of prophecy as is demonstrated. One day somebody is going to "guess" right. mark [I suspect the reference about not knowing times and seasons was to I Thes 5:1, however Mat 24:36 is also relevant, since it indicates that even Jesus didn't know. --clh]