Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!mit-eddie!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: wagner@karazm.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: In Communion with Rome? Message-ID: Date: 3 Oct 90 07:14:17 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Houston -- Department of Mathematics Lines: 104 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , mangoe@mimsy.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes: > Within the USA, there is some level of > common communion between the anglicans and the lutherans. As long as we're making corrections, let me note that 'the lutherans' here should be 'some lutherans'. In the USA we have several different church bodies that call themselves 'lutheran'. The most widely known are the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA), which was formed a few years ago in a merger, and the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LC-MS). The ELCA is generally regarded among Lutherans as 'liberal', and the LC-MS as 'conservative'. Despite these labels one can find conservative, orthodox christians, and less doctrinal types in either one. Whatever 'level of communion' exists between Anglicans and Lutherans on an official level would have to do with the ELCA, which is very much a part of the modern ecumenical trend. Besides the ELCA and LCMS which both number in the millions of souls, we also have the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS)(about 400,000), the Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS)(50,000?), and the Church of the Lutheran Confession (CLC)(?). One might classify these church bodies as 'orthodox' as a loose comparison to 'reformed', 'conservative', and 'orthodox' Jews. I belong to the WELS. These churches used to be in full fellowship with the LC-MS, until about 1960, when it became clear that the LC-MS was going to tolerate historical criticism of the Bible. When the WELS exercised patience, and did not immediately break fellowship with the LC-MS, a small group of congregations broke off from the WELS and formed the CLC. A couple of years later, as it became clear that patience was being exercised in vain, the WELS and ELS broke fellowship with the LCMS. Subsequently the LCMS elected a conservative president, who tried to steer the LC-MS back to orthodoxy, but the main result of this has been 28 years of much-publicized strife in the LCMS. So much for a brief sketch of the state of Lutheranism in the USA. In the WELS we believe that you have either full fellowship on the basis of full doctrinal agreement, or none at all. The idea of a 'level of communion' makes no sense to us. If this seems cold and unloving to some, that is to be regretted. However it is more important to us to witness to the truth taught in the Bible, than to show false, deceitful, and misleading love by giving outward approval of someone's error. As the Lord said to Ezekiel: "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them a warning from me. When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself." (Ezekiel 3:17-19) Also as Paul wrote in Romans 16:17,18: "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they decieve the minds of naive people." And as Lutherans confess in the Formula of Concord, Article X: "We believe, teach, and confess that in time of persecution, when a clear-cut confession of faith is demanded of us, we dare not yield to the enemies in such indifferent things [Adiaphora], as the apostle Paul writes, 'For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery' (Gal 5:11). 'Do not be mismated with unbelievers, for what fellowship has light with darkness?' (II Cor 6:14) 'To them we did not yield submission even for a moment, that the truth of the Gospel might be preserved for you' (Gal 2:5) In such a case it is no longer a question of indifferent things, but a matter which has to do with the truth of the Gospel, Christian liberty, and the sanctioning of public idolatry, as well as preventing offense to the weak in faith. In all these things we have no concessions to make, but we should witness an unequivocal confession and suffer in consequence what God sends us and what he lets the enemies inflict on us." By these quotes I hope to have demonstrated (briefly) that according to the Scriptures, fellowship requires full doctrinal agreement. In addition, this is a very Lutheran doctrine. As a matter of experience, I would like to add my opinion that the WELS' practice regarding fellowship has really helped to spare us much of the strife that has hurt the LCMS, and is now afflicting the Southern Baptists. David H. Wagner a confessional Lutheran "The Church shall never perish! Her dear Lord, to defend, to guide, sustain, and cherish, Is with her to the end. Tho' there be those that hate her, False sons within her pale, Against both foe and traitor She ever will prevail. "Though with a scornful wonder Men see her sore oppressed, By schisms rent asunder, By heresies distressed, Yet saints their watch are keeping; Their cry goes up, 'How long?' And soon the night of weeping Shall be the morn of song." --from "The Church's One Foundation" by Samuel Stone, 1866 My opinions and beliefs on this matter are disclaimed by The University of Houston.