Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!decwrl!shelby!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Christians abetting Satan? (Was: gulf crisis, spiritual help...) Message-ID: Date: 3 Oct 90 07:46:42 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 73 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article mayne@vsserv.scri.fsu.edu (William (Bill) Mayne) writes: > >If someone accepts as true the plain teaching of Christianity that it >is the only true religion and anyone deviating from it will suffer >eternal punishment, while believers enjoy eternal reward there is just >no room for compromise. Under these assumptions no worldly benefit can >compare with the benefits of this religion. Hence every possible means >should be used to propagate it. Similarly no harm done in this world >can compare to the loss of souls. The Inquisition was not an abberation. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >It made perfect sense. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Bill: This was a most interesting post. However, I do have one thing that I do not quite know what to do with. I marked in the above paragraph. Frankly, it does not make perfect sense to me. Granted I essentially believe as you state that Jesus Christ is the only source of salvation. But I do not find anywhere that Jesus or the apostles commanded us to force others to believe. Let me quote a passage from Paul's second letter to young Timothy (2 Timothy 2:23-25, NIV): "Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth" I don't find some clarion call to go forth and slay the infidel or heretic. For the Christian, there is no holy war against the world. Against powers, principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places yes--but even that is not a war fought with fleshly weapons. So for me, the Inquisition was, and is, an abberation--just as the Crusades were, and are. Slaying those that do not believe does not save them. And the Catholic clergyman who is reported to have said to "Kill them all and let God sort them out." was dead wrong. The dead cannot choose Jesus Christ. And tortured confessions of faith are not confessions of faith at all. Any one convinced against his or her will remains unconvinced still. No, Bill, those were and will always remain abberations and not Christianity. Again, yours was an interesting posting. Thanks. Because He lives, Gene Gross [I'm not one to defend the Inquisition, which I agree was a serious abberation. But I should point out that its intended purpose was not to kill non-believers, or even force conversions, but to prevent heresy and backsliding of converts. It certainly killed people -- which the Church has no right to do (and indeed there was some show of turning people over to the civil authority for this purpose, with a completely hypocritical recommendation that the civil authorities have mercy on them) -- but as far as I know, they didn't just go around looking for all nonbelievers and say "convert or die". Again, the context of "kill them all -- God will know his own" (if it was ever said -- there's reason to think it's legendary) was an area under the control of supposedly dangerous heretics. The point was to prevent corruption of the Church, and it was felt that things had gotten so far out of hand that the only way to reestablish authority in the area was a military campaign. Everyone knows that war kills innocent people. At some point this seems the lesser of evils. There are good reasons to think that there were political and other unworthy motivations involved, and in any case the Church has no business conducting a war to purify its theology. But again, it wasn't quite an attempt to force conversion. --clh]