Newsgroups: comp.databases
Path: utzoo!telly!evan
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted on Empress Database Package and 4GL
Organization: The Southern North York Spam Lover's Club
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 90 13:44:50 GMT
Message-ID: <270DDFD3.426A@telly.on.ca>
References: <1990Sep26.192938.1101@tropix.uucp> <96@thinc.UUCP>

In article <1990Sep26.192938.1101@tropix.uucp>, msr@tropix.uucp
(Melanie S. Roche) asks for opinions on Empress:

In reply, in article <96@thinc.UUCP> ethan@thinc.UUCP
(pri=-5*Ethan A. Lish of THINC) replies:

>	Greetings -
>
>	PROGRESS(tm) runs on the Solbourne 5/600 
>
>		A *Quick* list of Features:
>[...]
>**** Let me show you how PROGRESS(tm) can solve your application issues ***

Sigh. Maybe someone should tell Ethan about how the net just LOVES
postings which parrot marketing babble. Without even the class to send
said babble by private mail, as Melanie specifically asked for. Sigh.

Lest this be considered totally a flame, let me say that I have spent
considerable time working on both Progress and Empress. Both have their
strengths and weaknesses, and I must say up front that our company ended
up deleting our copy of Empress from the hard disk while we became a
Progress VAR. But Empress may still be preferable in some circumstances.

Progress is clearly the choice for any developer planning to resell
programs or distribute programs to branch offices, as EMPRESS isn't
available in a run-time licence. Every site running EMPRESS applications
needs a full-development licence. However, for a site which doesn't care
about re-distribution, Empress is more complete - some 'C' language
interfaces, like imbedded SQL, as extra-cost in Progress but standard
in Empress.

I like Empress's implementation of SQL better than Progress's. But if
you're not wedded to SQL, Progress's native programming language is
faster in both time to develop and time to execute. Since going to
Progress, despite spending years on Empress and Informix SQL, I found
it better to learn the internal Progress language.

One feature Empress has which Progress lacks, which is a REAL difference
if this matters to you, is its ability to contain arbitrary-length 
information as a database field. The Empress "bulk" data type is great
for applications which may want to contain, say, a video image stored in
binary format, as merely a field in a database. A "text" field type is a
little like dBASE memo fields but is more flexible. Progress is two
major releases away from providing any such capabilities.

Where the two differ the most is in the interface presented to the
applications programmer, and the reason we dumped Empress. Its M-Builder
is very clumsy, uses non-standard mechanisms for describing terminal
keys and characteristics (no termcap or terminfo), and is especially
awkward at simple pick-and-point operations. There are more things to
keep track of when programming Empress, while many Progress defaults are
often sufficient for good intuitive operations.

The only area of programming where Empress is superior is with its
M-Writer report-writing language, which I found a joy. But for menus,
entry screens and conventional script logic, Progress is better by miles.

Hope this helps both of you.
-- 
Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!attcan!telly!evan / moderator, rec.arts.erotica
         Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most