Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!agate!linus!linus!mbunix!kf
From: kf@mbunix.mitre.org (Fong)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Woz giveth, Scully taketh away
Message-ID: <121895@linus.mitre.org>
Date: 2 Oct 90 12:47:37 GMT
References: <4756@crash.cts.com> <1990Oct2.044919.12938@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <7408@darkstar.ucsc.edu>
Sender: usenet@linus.mitre.org
Organization: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, MA
Lines: 74


Of the reasons for why Apple II users hate Macs, I think the only one that is
valid is that Apple emphasized the Mac to such a degree that they let the
Apple II development and marketing drop.

I wouldn't even bother replying to this article, except the one thing that
really bugs me about many of these Mac-bashing articles from Apple II users is
that it seems they really believe all those other reasons given for hating
Macs.  (Not all Apple II users bash the Mac.)  Apple II users have good
reasons for bashing Apple, but except for the reason given above, the other
reasons given are just simply no longer true and therefore, invalid.

Apple has long since (3 years now) recognized the Mac's weaknessses and
improved upon the original design by adding slots,16.8 million colors, and
programming (Hypercard) capability to the basic Mac package.  There is an
excellent third-party programming environment that costs less than $100 (Think
Pascal/C).  Apple and others have also improved on their windowing system
such that all you have to do is hold down one key and you can close all your
windows at once.  (To those who seem to comment now after having tried it once
back in the beginning, try it again before you make any comments that indicate
your lack of use!!)

The Mac "for the rest of us" was never cheap ($2495 list at introduction in
1984) and has never meant it was affordable.  Never!  Never!  Apple and
affordable has never gone together except in people's dreams.  The whole idea
of the "rest of us" was that it was easy to learn and use for people who were
not previously computer users, not that people could afford it.

The Mac was not originally geared for business, but because Apple was going
through tough times (reember 1985), they decided that they needed to sell to
the business market.  (By the way, the Apple III was geared for the business
market, too.)  But people on this list bashed it even before it was aimed to
the business market.

The Mac has been a "hobbyist" machine since 1987.  It may be a costly hobbyist
machine, but I don't understand what features or lack of features excludes it
from being a hobbyist machine.  Is it simply because you can't program in
assembly?  The Mac is used extensively for personal programming (loads and
loads of shareware), video, music, etc.  Mac users customize their Macs
constantly.  Hypercard is used by people to do exactly what they want.

But enough.  I am entirely sympathetic to the plight of the Apple II user and
I've written before that just about everything Apple does seems to justify the
complaints of the Apple II user.  Apple has done little and done it too late
to improve the atmosphere surrounding the Apple II.  You can hate Apple for
that and not buy a Mac because you hate Apple.  (No argument with that.)  But
there are many people who work very hard to make the Mac what it is, and there
are many people who love their Macs as much as Apple II users love the Apple
II, and they don't care to hear some of the unjustified Mac-bashing.

A couple of other things that should be clarified.  Apple is dropping the Mac
IIcx model not because it isn't selling (in fact, it is the best selling model
among Macs), but because its price is about the same as the next higher-level
model, the IIci.  The IIcx has no built-in video and the IIci does and the
difference in cost between the two machines is less than the cost of an 8-bit
color video card.  In reality, what Apple is doing is dropping its prices.
Unheard of, uh?  (But I bet that the IIci costs a lot less to manufacture than
the IIcx.)

The color low-end Mac LC is expected to cost about $2500 with a 40MB hard disk
but monitor extra.  The total cost is about $3000.  If Apple had wanted to
phase out the Apple IIGS, wouldn't they have lowered the price some more so it
would directly compete?  If Apple lowers the price of the Apple IIGS, it would
be a good indication that they want both to exist.

Which leads me to this: At a recent Apple accounts and dealers intro, Apple
reps said that the Apple IIe, Mac SE, and Mac IIcx are no longer a part of the
family.  Apple indicated that work and support for all members of the family
(including the Apple IIGS) were going strong.

Kevin Fong
IIGS and Mac user
MITRE Corporation
Standard disclaimer