Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!wuarchive!usc!jarthur!ucivax!gateway
From: wilber%aludra.usc.edu@usc.EDU (John Wilber)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Girls, girls, girls
Message-ID: <12444@chaph.usc.edu>
Date: 11 Oct 90 16:30:04 GMT
References: <1990Oct4.021201.23780@nntp-server.caltech.edu> <12345@chaph.usc.edu> <18086@oolong.la.locus.com>
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In article <18086@oolong.la.locus.com> judy@altair.la.locus.COM (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:

>According to Miss Manners, a person should be addressed or referred to
>in a manner which the person prefers.  Therefore, if I ask you to call
>me Mrs. Tyrer and you insist on calling me Judy, you are being rude.

As a generality I think this is correct, but I would say that if you
insisted on being referred to as "your grand exaulted highness, Ms.
Judy Leedom Tyrer" Miss Manners would not approve.  Admittedly, "girl"
is not quite as obnoxious as that, but the same principle is at work.

[Somehow, I don't think that girl-->woman is anything like
Mrs.-->grand exalted highness...

I don't think any of us are in dispute that "girl" has been used
derogatorily, not necessarily by John Wilbur.  For example, I know
that I have been called "girl" in a derogatory fashion.  I have been
called such often enough that I am uncomfortable with being called a
"girl."  I refuse to be called a "girl" even by one such as John who
does not mean anything derogatory by it (and I wonder, John; your
refusal to listen to those of us objecting to the term smacks of
contempt to me -- whether or not you intend it to, you should probably
stop and consider why you come across to me like that (please note I
don't necessarily think you're being contemptuous, but I'm being
honest about the impression I'm getting)) and I think that common
politeness then dictates that you should respect that request, whether
or not you think that you're guilty of using the word in the way that
caused the objection.

I think this thread is getting beaten to the ground, considering that
people on either side have not budged from their initial positions and
are now repeating the same arguments.  I'm inclined to let it die,
unless there are futher trenchant observations...  --CLT]