Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: scott@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US (Scott Reynolds) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Commandments or Suggestions Message-ID: Date: 7 Oct 90 01:28:42 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 70 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu jhpb@granjon.garage.att.com writes: >>In reading the ten commandments we find the second commandment is "YOU >>MUST NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A CARVED IMAGE...YOU MUST NOT BOW DOWN TO >>THEM NOR BE INDUCED TO SERVE THEM.' >The prohibition of images is not the same sort of thing as the >prohibition of murder. It is not absolutely immoral to have statues, >pictures, etc., but it is absolutely immoral to murder. This escapes me, too, for some reason. I was once a member of a denomination whose churches had images of various persons; I note with some sadness that people actually bowed in front of them. This is one of the major reasons I left that denomination, because it's written quite plainly that "you must not bown down to them". So, yes, you're right in saying that there's nothing wrong with _having_ them, but in a certain rather major denomination the leaders and members do bow to them. While they may not be worshiping the images themselves, why do they even consider having an image in the place of worship in light of this commandment? I find it harder and harder to believe that the 10 Commandments should be viewed as the 6 Commandments and 4 Suggestions, or the 9 Commandments and 1 Suggestion for that matter. I'm going to ask this question quite seriously: why is the prohibition of images any different than the prohibition of murder? I can follow the explanation of having statues vs. worshiping them, but it doesn't satisfy the basic issue of why one commandment is any more or less important than another. For another example consider "you shall remember the Sabbath... to keep it holy" -- the actual day has been shown quite convincingly to be Saturday. I can't say that I am not quilty of doing this myself, since I do not keep the Sabbath. I don't believe that is going to be an answer I can use on Judgement Day, however. In Jesus' divine love, -- Scott Reynolds = scott@clmqt.marquette.Mi.US Enterprise Information System = ..rutgers!mailrus!sharkey!clmqt!scott "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand." -- YHWH (Job 38:4) [On your question about Saturday, this is more controversial than you might think. There are several views about the relationship between Christians and the Law. They range from those who believe that it's binding on Christians in all details, to those who take Paul's arguments as implying that the Law does not apply at all. (In that case, Christians would be guided by the law of love.) A sort of typical Christian middle ground is to divide the Law into two parts, a ceremonial Law, which is part of the specific covenant with the Jews, and a moral Law, which is application to everyone. Generally such people take most of the 10 Commandments as the moral law, but exempt the specific date of the Sabbath (although not the general requirement to worship regularly) as ceremonial. THere is some NT evidence for each of these positions. The NT records a debate over whether to require Gentiles who want to become Christaisn to be circumcized. A similar range of views was present in NT times. From Acts and Paul's letters it seems clear that there was a concensus not to apply the entire Law to Gentile Christians. However there seems still to have been slight variances in approach, with the discussion reported in Acts being based on the Jewish concept of the Noachide covenant (a minimal set of laws that apply even to Gentiles), and Paul's approach taking a rather more radical stand against the Law. The remnants of these discussions who in differing general approaches to ethics, and issues such as the Sabbath. There are some Christians who say that Christians do not observe the Sabbath at all -- Christian worship is "free", not legal, and is based on the Lord's Day, a celebration of Christ's resurrection. Others call Sunday the Christian Sabbath, thus maintaining at least some of the authority of the Law in this respect. We've had long discussions on this in the past. --clh]