Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian
From: bralick@finglas.entmoot.cs.psu.edu (Will Bralick)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: One of the best kept secrets in the Catholic Church
Message-ID: <Oct.6.23.13.20.1990.1701@athos.rutgers.edu>
Date: 7 Oct 90 03:13:22 GMT
Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu
Organization: Self Similar
Lines: 105
Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu

[Someone (probably Will Bralick, but there are enough widgets in the
original that it's hard to be sure) commented that there should not be
a conflict between your conscience and the (Roman Catholic) Church,
because your conscience should be properly formed.  Mark Sandrock
objected to the concept of conscience being "formed".  For him it is
intuitive perception, and should not be subjected to external
authority.  --clh]

Sorry, but "conscience" is not "intuitive perception."

Please note that Mr. Spetter was discussing events at a meeting 
of Roman Catholics.  Thus I answered from the perspective of
Roman Catholicism.  It seems that Mr. Sandrock is responding to my 
contribution from a perspective other than that of a Roman Catholic, 
viz. he is not using the word "conscience" as a Catholic uses it.  

conscience - the judgement of our reason as to whether an act is 
 	     good or bad.  

Note in particular the words _judgement_ and _reason_.

What Mr. Sandrock seems to be referring to is some sort of spiritual 
sense or charism which is extra-rational -- that is, not at all what
Catholics refer to when speaking of "conscience."

| When someone tells you otherwise, that you must "form" your opinions or
| conscience in accordance with *their* teaching, they are 100% wrong! And
| must have some agenda in mind. Otherwise, they would only encourage you to
| think and to choose freely for yourself, according to your own conscience.

According to Roman Catholic doctrine, the Church has teaching authority 
in the areas of morals and doctrine.

	The Second Vatican Council stated: "In the formation of 
	their consciences, the Christian faithful ought carefully 
	to attend to the sacred and certain doctrine of the Church.
	The Catholic Church is, by the will of Christ, the teacher
	of the truth.  It is her duty to give utterance to, and
	authoritatively to teach, that Truth which is Christ Himself
	and also to declare and confirm by her authority those
	principles of the moral order which have their origin in
	human nature itself."  [Dignitatis Humanae]  Thus a Christian
	has the right and duty to follow his conscience, but also the 
	responsibility to form his conscience in accord with truth
	in the light of faith.

		[Lawler, et al, _The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic 
		 Catechism for Adults_, 2d ed., 1983, Our Sunday 
		 Visitor, Inc., Huntington, IN; pg 272]

Also,

	No believer will wish to deny that the teaching authority
	of the Church is competent to interpret even the natural
	moral law.  It is, in fact, indisputable, as our predecessors
	have many times declared, [cf Qui Pluribus, Singulari Quadam,
	Casti Connubii, etc.] that Jesus Christ, when communicating
	to Peter and to the apostles His divine commandments,
	constituted them as guardians and authentic interpreters
	of all the moral law, not only, that is, of the law of the
	Gospel, but also of the natural law, which is also an
	expression of the will of God, the faithful fulfillment
	of which is equally necessary for salvation.

		[Pope Paul VI, _Humanae Vitae_, July 25, 1968]

To reject the authority of the Roman Catholic Church is to reject 
the Roman Catholic Church, and this is (I think) the essence of 
Protestantism (including, for example, Anglicans).  For a Roman 
Catholic to reject the authority of the Roman Catholic Church 
(e.g. regarding the use of artifical means of birth control) is at 
least intellectually dishonest and potentially sacrilegious.

Roman Catholicism is not a roll-your-own religion.

| God did not need any intermediary when He created us, and He does not need
| any intermediary in order to convey His Will to us. Rather, we can learn to
| perceive the Will of God in *everything* we experience throughout our lives!

God doesn't require the intermediation of a book, either.

Christ instituted a Church; He didn't write a book.  

| Perhaps we do not always want to bear the responsibility of having to think
| for ourselves, but then this is our own free will to surrender this function
| to others, and we must thus bear the consequences of our spiritual indolence.

Gee, this is a nasty, little sneer isn't it?  Smacks of not a little
anti-Catholic bigotry, as well.  Hmm... Irresponsible, slavish, and 
indolent, eh?

I choose to accept the responsibility to form my conscience in 
accordance with the authoritative teaching of the Church founded 
by our Lord Jesus Christ -- the Holy Roman Catholic Church.  


Best regards,

Will                                            bralick@sol4.cs.psu.edu

It was a curious idea ... that the Church should adapt the faith to suit 
the world rather than the other way around, or that the "contemporary" 
intellectual ... should expect to find being a Christian comfortable.     

					     -- Anne Roche Muggeridge