Xref: utzoo comp.sys.mac.misc:4305 comp.os.mach:586 Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!aplcen!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!lll-winken!unixhub!shelby!eos!data.nas.nasa.gov!discovery!jude From: jude@nas.nasa.gov (Jude A. George) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.os.mach Subject: MachTen for Macintosh (YAFI) Message-ID: <1990Oct16.220350.24085@nas.nasa.gov> Date: 16 Oct 90 22:03:50 GMT References: <1990Oct16.215725.23995@nas.nasa.gov> Sender: news@nas.nasa.gov Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA Lines: 93 I've had several requests to post whatever info I've gathered about Tenon's MachTen at Interop, so here goes. MachTen is is a different approach to Mach on the Macintosh. Whereas CMU's MacMach is a native-mode port of the BSD4.3 Mach kernal to the Mac, MachTen is actually an application that runs on top of the MacOS. But don't hit 'n' just yet. This allows it use of the functions provided by the Mac system software, such as the serial drivers, Appletalk, Mac fonts, etc. I believe these capabilities had to be reimplemented from scratch in CMU's MacMach. Mach tasks (processes) run within the MachTen environment, and preemptive multi-tasking is supported. This makes sense, since applications under MacOS run under the 68000's supervisor mode; the MachTen kernal likewise runs in supervisor mode (since it's a Mac application), but forces its tasks to run in user mode. Well, this is only an assumption, but it's the only way they can accomplish what they're doing, right? You can run Mac applications on top of the MachTen environment, each one being a Mach task -- MachTen probably just traps their system calls and passes them down to the MacOS. What application did they use to demonstrate this? TeachText. I saw MachTen running on an SE as well as a II-series machine. The Macs without PMMUs or 68030s simply don't provide full memory management. Well, they must provide some sort of memory management, since Mach needs it for message passing. Perhaps everything but the physical act of paging? IP is supported over LocalTalk, Ethernet, and serial lines (with SL/IP). To demonstrate the latter, they had a terminal directly connected to an SE's modem port. So what happens when you run NCSA Telnet over this puppy and fire up the ftp server? Who gets the port, NCSA Telnet or /etc/ftpd? I forgot to ask. Call them. They also claim to have an NFS client and server. BTW, they use the standard Mac HFS filesystem... no separate partition is necessary. The same files are accessible from the MacOS and Mach. So what's the bad news? It's still buggy. The screen doesn't update properly when you run a Mac application out of MachTen. Even in something as simple as TeachText. Not all of the UNIX utilities have been ported. I have a feeling that porting standard BSD4.3 compliant software is a lot more difficult under MachTen than under CMU's MacMach. CMU also handles running Mac software under Mach in a cleaner way (IMHO) by running the entire MacOS as a Mach process, although not everything in their implementation is working, either. Of course, Mac programs can't make use of preemptive multitasking in such a design, but who cares. The MacOS doesn't support IPC. MachTen is slated for Q1 1991 release, $495. That's next year, folks. Selections from their show handout: "MachTen supports true UNIX miltitasking. With MachTen, slots of processor time are given to each program, creating the illusion of several programs running simultaneously. This allows multiple windows on the screen to execute Macintosh and UNIX programs at the same time. For example, a user can edit a document with WriteNow or vi while a C program is compiling and a MacDraw II graphic is printing." [ Well, I never saw *multiple* Mac programs running side by side, although they claim they will support this in their release. Keep an eye on this. ] "MachTen provides a user friendly, software development and UNIX execution environment for the entire Macintosh family. The MachTen Development System supports a complete software development environment that includes Source Code Control System (SCCS), 'C' compiler, loader, assembler, debugger, and automated source dependency management via the Make program. A complete set of libraries is included to allow 'C' programs to access to the Macintosh Toolbox. This enables programmers to create UNIX applications that have the "look and feel" of the Macintosh." "Macintosh applications run exactly as they would in native mode. MachTen has no "32-bit clean" constraint on Macintosh applications." "On-line HyperCard documentation is available along with standard manuals. Technical support is available via 1-800-6-MACH-10." "A two-user binary licence is included in the standard system price. Unlimited binary licenses are also available." Supported hardware: Classic, LC, SE, SE/30, II, IIcx, IIfx. 2MB RAM, 4MB recommended for Development System users. Their address: Tenon Intersystems TEL 805-963-6983 1123 Chapala Street FAX 805-962-8202 Santa Barbara, CA 93101 1-800-6-MACH-10 Neither I nor NASA nor CSC have any affiliation with Tenon. Yow. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::/::::::::::::::::::::::::::::/::::::::::::::: ::::::::Jude:Anand:George:::::%\/:::::jude@nas.nasa.gov::::%\/:::::::::::::: ::::::::reagan:denude:jog:::::\/\::::::/\:/\::::::/\:::::::\/\:::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\::::::/ / \/\::/ \:/\::::\:::::::::::::::