Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!agate!linus!linus!mbunix!kf From: kf@mbunix.mitre.org (Fong) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: New Macintoshes and Apple's Satellite Announcement Message-ID: <123555@linus.mitre.org> Date: 17 Oct 90 12:44:33 GMT References: <1990Oct16.063654.2744@isis.cs.du.edu> <5735@nisca.ircc.ohio-state.edu> <40963@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> <45706@apple.Apple.COM> Sender: usenet@linus.mitre.org Organization: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, MA Lines: 89 Mark Cromwell writes: > Apple probably just killed what's left of their share in the education >market. Educators are willing to pay $1500 for a computer. $2000+ is just >too much. The LC is over priced, they won't even consider buying it... > IBM's machine has the magic $1500, greater storage capacity and what >educators really love: COLOR. I totally disagree. It seems that you've missed a lot of facts in coming to your conclusions. Maybe some enlightenment would help you: Contrary to popular belief, Apple did survey the education market prior to producing the LC. (Mark, if you're an educator, I guess they missed your wonderful opinio.) According to the Apple rep at the intro, over 70% of educators preferred buying Macintoshes over Apple IIs if cost is not a factor. But cost, color, sound, and preserving investment in Apple II software were important factors. (None of my K-8 educator friends were surveyed but they all agree with the above statement.) The Mac LC meets each of these criteria. It has COLOR (256 colors on the 12" RGB display). It has simple-to-use sound input (microphone) and sound output (internal speaker as well as output jack). For a single or dual-floppy version with 12" monitor, the LC will prbably meet the cost of $1500 per unit in the education market. (Not that I agree that the $1500 mark is the magic number. According to my friends, schools average about $2000 per unit and peripherals.) Having no hard disk is not a big problem on the Mac because of its built-in networking capabilities. And the $199 Apple IIe card allows for continued use of tens of thousands of Apple II software packages. In each of these factors, the LC beats the IBM. To get 256 colors on the IBM, you pay extra. To get networking on an IBM, you pay extra. It may or may not be possible (rumor only - nothing announced) to get an Apple IIe emulation card for the IBM by March 1991, when the Apple card ships. And sound, you pay extra (if you still have enough slots for it). When you add all these useful items, the IBM is the one that is overpriced. And to top it off, every Mac also has a SCSI port, which allows for many useful education peripherals such as fast hard disk storage, CD-ROM, video disc, scanners, etc. And lastly, every Mac comes with a fully usable version of Hypercard. The Mac really does include a lot for its price. > the IBM name spells doom for the >education market for Apple. A lot of educators want "up to date", affordable, >business oriented compututers: IBM (hey, it's true, that's what they think). I think more than a few people think the Mac is now an "up-to-date" and business-oriented computer. The LC may not be state-of-the art, but neither is the PS/2 25. And with these new Macs, even quite affordable. One more point: In general, educators like Apple a lot more than they like IBM. Although Apple hasn't done much in the Apple II general purpose market, they have listened to educators and provided lots of educator support. > Not >to mention the Macintosh has virtually no educational software. Let me ask again: Are you an educator or is this second-hand news? Contrary to your belief that virtually no education software exists for the Mac, much does exist (not even counting the Apple II stuff) and much more is coming. New educational software for the Mac has been announced by Chancery Software, Broderbund (Carmen Sandiego, etc), Computer Curriculum Corporation, Davidson, Great Wave, ABC News Interactive, Jostens Learning, Discis, Compu-Teach, Scholastic Software, MECC, Wings for learning, William K. Bradford, Milliken, Logo Computer Systems, Pelican, Tom Snyder Productions, Scott-Foresman, Sunburst, Knowledge Revolution, plus many more for Higher education too. Aldus is selling a student version of Pagemaker for $50. Mathematica is being sold for $139. Microsoft already sells student versions of Word and Excel. > What I consider sad is that the Apple II didn't have to die. It's not >in the workstation market. It's main competitors always were the Amiga >and the Atari. Getting its performance up to that level would have been >easy. Alas Apple has let the II lay fallow for so long that it let the >education market bleed to death. It's main competitor in the education market is IBM, not Amiga or Atari. > I'd also like to point out that Macintosh technology is itself looking >pretty ragged. The 68000 is a > 10 year CISC chip. When the price/performance >ratio gets too high Apple will start looking at the 88000. Fool me once shame >on you, fool me twice shame on me. The LC uses a 68020. But regardless, the Intel family is similarly as old. If you can find or build a RISC chip computer that meets all of the educator criteria above (remember your $1500 magic number), you can make lots of money. The problem is it doesn't yet exist!!!. I think Apple has made a good move with the LC. Now they just have to get it approved by the FCC and produce them faster. Kevin Fong MITRE Corporation Standard disclaimer.