Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!wuarchive!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!info-high-audio-request From: Daniel_Rai@ub.cc.umich.edu Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end Subject: Re: Magenepans vs. Apogees Message-ID: <6966@uwm.edu> Date: 15 Oct 90 13:08:53 GMT Sender: news@uwm.edu Lines: 127 Approved: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ========================== In the $300-$500 per component range, perhaps Magnepans are quite a bargain. Years ago, a pair of SMGa'a were startlingly well driven by a Nak Receiver (I thought I was so happy). That was then -pre tubes, or American solid state... I've owned three diferent pairs of Magnepans in three different apartments. Each night after dinner, I would spend 2-4 energy draining emotionally harried hours trying to get the things optimally placed. If I were to give Magnepans a name, it would be "Frequency Countour of the Picosecond". If you blinked - imaging would flip-flop then go inside out. Thermal expansion from temperature changes , would swing the "sweet" spot (aka Psycho Death Chamber) several yards. The most miniscule placement changes (we're talking mm's or less), would put all the nasty spikes and valleys through a Moulinex, to be scattered about randomly. I would always get rid of them after 3-4 very trying weeks. No matter how much I wanted them to sound *just good enough to keep them* (and how I wanted to keep them - women *love* planar speakers), they were always able to bludgeon my perseverance though sheer attrition. As for Apogees, they are insanely fragile. You *will* be punished if you try to ship them. A Caliper woofer was damaged en route to me from the seller. The pedestal was damaged on the trip to the factory to repair the woofer, and the frame was vertically fractured from the factory while shipping them to me. Shipping Calipers runs about $150 per speaker per direction. Not to mention Apogee's parts and labor. The speakers flog the amp to run at 160-170(F) during low to moderate listening levels - this is up from the normal idling temp of 110(F), [Levinson 27 with user placed meat thermometer]. In spite of all of this, of all speakers I have ever come across, these have been the easiest to live with, by a COMPLETE and SIGNIFICANT step. (There are others, but of the ones I've had firsthand experience with, only Apogee, Quad, Thiel, and Rogers have I been able to forget where the speakers are located while listening). Placement: as mentioned before, I've spent much less than 1% of the time moving Magnepans, on placing the Apogees. Zero toe in, rear wall space adjusted to tune bass response. Period. Box, lock, and key. Apogees are definitely colored - no neutrality here! But colorations make it sound rich and brilliant. Bottom half is very controlled, yet powerful as to just hint at being heavy handed at times. Total response is smooth (Apogee trademark) and somewhat soft, with no noticable peakiness anywhere. Imaging and openness is done so well, that for the first time ever , I have been able to *listen* without analyzing most of the time. (I used to spend >80% analyzing - now it's less than 10%) This is not a sales pitch for Apogee. I am quite pissed off at their inadequate packaging. "Here's a Faberge Easter Egg . Drop it in a shopping bag, and we'll stick it in the US Mail to Miami." Right. What packing buffoons. RE: speakers $2-$5K ------------------- The Quad ESL-63's are accurate (If you are a detail freak, this is God's gift to you), but are missing all of the lower octaves, so balance is light (let's call this White). Martin Logan CLS II's have stage size, but is not convincingly open or very clear (their transformers maybe? - let's call this Off-White). Mirage M1's weren't bad, but lost control too often and had a schizophrenic balance (Some-Color-of-Bicycle- Shorts-Which-There-Exists-No-Name). Linn DMS's sounded good - light and open, but on some material was slightly nasal. DMS's are visually imposing. Thiel CS 3 or 3.5's sound great. One should be able to find a used pair of CS3's for less than $2K (as steal in my opinion). RE: B&W Bashing --------------- After all the fanfare and rave reviews, I was dying to be blown away by the $5500/pair. Store 1: Denon CD (no vinyl), Adcom electronics Blurry image, confused transients, nasal, boxy, hollow, in a word - irritating. The eager salesperson smiling for a rave review prompted me (and non-audio- girlfriend) to severely understate our illness. I could only tell him that there must have been something wrong with the player or electronics. The speakers COULDN'T POSSIBLY sound THAT bad. Store 2: LP12/ITTOK, MAC electronics Sounded much better. About as good as a pair of medium floor standing Boston Acoustics. (Let me see, equivalent performance , at a 900% premium - well, the B&W's *look* fancier). Whoever here said earlier, they sound like bookshelves but with more bass, was right on target. I still refuse to accept, that they do not sound better than the times I've heard them. I WANT them to sound good (let alone great). They can't be this short on performance. If they really are (to my disbelief), they would be the worst sounding expensive speakers ever to reach main markets. Daniel_Rai@UB.CC.UMICH.EDU / USERHDM0@UMICHUB.BITNET Kresge Hearing Research Institute University of Michigan Medical School