Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!lll-winken!sun-barr!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark T. Sandrock) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: One of the best kept secrets in the Catholic Church Message-ID: Date: 18 Oct 90 07:23:25 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 144 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu arm@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Alexander d Macalalad) writes: > Well, I guess that we've heard both extremes. The danger with Mark's position > is that there is the danger to reject church and rely solely on individual > conscience. Taken to its logical conclusion, one can reject even the Bible > in favor of conscience. This is certainly not the intention of the > Roman Catholic position. Let me suggest some middle ground. > There is no middle ground. Your implication is that someone could possibly be lead into error by one's conscience, when in fact it is *always* exactly the converse: one is lead into error when one chooses not to listen to one's conscience (or inner voice)! > Our conscience is in some sense our perception of God and His will for us. > But it is often difficult for most of us to even hear our conscience, let > alone listen to it, since it is drowned out by our own sin and our own > agenda for satisfying our needs. > Not "in some sense" but in *every* sense is our conscience our personal perceiving of the Will of God! Every creature has a guidance in Creation, including man, to believe otherwise would be to doubt the perfection of the Creator and of His wonderful Creation! > Fortunately, God reveals Himself to us not only through our conscience, but > through Jesus Christ, through the Bible, and through the Church. It is > through these sources of revelation where we learn God's voice, and we > learn how to listen to His voice in our hearts, in our conscience. This > is what the Church means for us to inform our conscience. Fortunately, God does reveal Himself to us in every aspect of His Creation. Also, His Will has been brought to men's attention at various times through- out our history, most notably through the Message of His Son, Jesus, but also through the teachings of many prophets, called ones, and forerunners through- out the ages. Unfortunately, time and again, this pure teachings have been misunderstood, misinterpreted, and misrecorded. Insofar as mankind has gone astray in the course of its intended, natural development, we do all need the help of the *pure* teachings from the Will of God in order to find our way. Insofar as the teachings of Jesus have been correctly recorded in the NT, it is a most valuable source of enlightenment for mankind. Insofar as the teachings of Jesus were misundertood at the time they were recorded, there is a potential for error and confusion. The same can be said for each church which bases its teachings upon the various human interpretations of the recorded teachings of Jesus from the New Testament--there is a potential for good, but also one for errors and confusion. Far be it from the Lord, however, to leave us without the necessary help in our hour of need. For all those who believe: "When the need is greatest, God's help will be nearest to you!" I would strongly urge to investigate the work: "In the Light of Truth", the Grail Message, by Abd-ru-shin, as to the great help it brings to mankind in the setting right of distorted concepts, in particular in the full clarification and continuation of the teaching of Christ, as it truly was, not as mankind has choosen to make of it! In fact, our conscience, our spiritual intuitive perception, does not need any "forming" from without, but rather only needs to be "uncovered" of all the errors and dross which we have allowed to "veil" it. Then it will flare up naturally and joyfully of its own accord to unite with the spiritual and to illuminate our path through life! And part of the "dross" which tends to keep us spiritually oppressed is any teaching which goes against the Will of God in Creation. If we are spiritually alert -- like the wise virgins-- we shall then be able to recognize and to absorb the truth when it finally comes our way. Otherwise, we shall pass it by in the delusion of already knowing better! It is our "inner voice" which allows us to find the truth. Otherwise, we leave ourselves at the mercy of the will of others, we choose to surrender our precious birthright of having the free will to choose in each situation, which naturally brings with it a corresponding responsibility! On a related note, what is the big concern with scholarship when it is a matter of spiritual values and of the Will of God. Don't we know that the way to the Highest is open to everone? And that earthly erudition is not the way thereto? Would it change what I say if I had three PhD's? Or if I had none? Consider, who were the first to recognize Jesus? It was the simple people, was it not? Fisherman, many of them! And then consider, what was the attitude of many of the scholars at that time? The scribes and Pharisees? Many of them fought against Jesus and His Message of salvation. Many of them were His worst enemies. This should tell us all something. And now, who are the people who are going to "form" our conscience for us? Are they the simple people, or are they the scholars? I think the words of Martin Luther at the Imperial Diet in Worms, on April 18, 1521, when he was called upon to recant his teachings, are most instructive: "Unless I am convinced and conquered by the testimony of the Holy Scriptures, or by clear rational arguments, I shall continue to be conquered by the Scriptural passages quoted by me, and my conscience will remain captive in the Word of God; and I cannot and will not recant, for it is hard, harmful, and dangerous to act against one's conscience. So help me God, Amen!" (Propylaeen World History, Vol. 7) And what was the response of the Emperor Charles V to Martin Luthor? "Thus I am determined to adhere to all that has been achieved since the Council of Constance. For it is certain that a single monk is mistaken when he opposes the opinion of the whole of Christendom, since otherwise, Christendom would necessarily erred for a thousand years or more." (Propylaeen World History, Vol. 7) My point here is not to raise the issues of the Catholic Church versus the Protestant Church, for I myself have nothing to do with either of these Churches. My point is to illustrate that each one finds the way to the truth on his own. We alone are responsible for *every* idea or teaching that we choose to accept or reject, regardless of its origin. We alone have to find our how to sift the "dross" from the "gold", keeping one, discarding the other. And our inner voice, our conscience, is our faithful guide in this endeavor. The truth has a sound of its own. It "rings true" when we hear it. It does *not* require long years of study and pondering. It is simple, clear and natural. Children typically have this ability. As children we easily can detect the true from the false, right from wrong. Often we lose this ability as adults, however. We surrender it to the opinions of others. We stop experiencing and start intellectualizing, and then wonder why things are not running better for us. For this reason, Jesus also told us to "become like little children". In other words, to become simple, clear and natural in our thoughts, words, and deeds! Jesus also did say: "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself..." In the Revelation, John describes the Holy Spirit as "him, which is to come" (1,4). He mediates the Grace "from him which is and which was, and which is to come ... and from Jesus Christ". Quite obviously he is speaking of two Persons, Him "which is to come" *and* Jesus! It is for the fulfillment of this prophecy that we should be looking at this time in the course of world events. Best wishes, Mark Sandrock -- BITNET: sandrock@uiucscs Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Internet: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Chemical Sciences Computing Services Voice: 217-244-0561 505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801