Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!lll-winken!sun-barr!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark T. Sandrock) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: One of the best kept secrets in the Catholic Church Message-ID: Date: 18 Oct 90 07:24:47 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 51 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu BINDNER@auvm.auvm.edu writes: > I respond to Mark Sandrock that He created us through our parents. > Further, His last discourse (he is the vine, we are the branches) and > the commissioning of Peter and the Apostles on several occasions show > the need for a Church to aid us in the search for truth. Further, > there is fraternal correction and the responsibility that we love one > another. However, a conscience is necessary because we are each > individually responsible for how we respond to His teaching through > the Church and through Him in our hearts through the sacraments and > His inspiration. And I respond that we are each spiritual beings, and therefore first existed in the spiritual realm before journeying to this earth. The same can be said about the Creation Happening described in Genesis: the account given is of the first, or spiritual, Creation. The physical, material world only later on came gradually into existence, in accordance with the natural laws of evolution and development, as already recognized by scientific endeavor. Our parents did not "create" us. They simply helped to bring about the gross material (physical) vessel in which we dwell for a time. This is two different things entirely. The "breath of life" which is breathed into the physical body is our spirit which originated in the Spiritual Realm, and this part is what constitues the actual person. We live only for a time on this earth, and must leave the physical body behind when we depart. If Jesus said that He was the vine and we were the branches, then this makes sense to me, and does not appear to me to support the claim for the need of an earthly organization to lead us into the truth. There is a natural urge for people to unite in fellowship, to strengthen and share insights with one another, but any such union in no way relieves each one of us of our individual responsibility for what we believe, say, and do with our lives. To be more specific this time: God did not require a church to create us, and no other person or organization is necessary for us to perceive and to follow the Will of God for our own lives. Human organizations and the true Will of God are not at all necessarily one and the same. This is not to say that much good has not come about through various church organizations, but this in no way removes the responsibility from anyone for what they choose to believe about God and His Creation. Our highest duty is first and foremost to God, and not to any earthly organization. Regards, Mark Sandrock -- BITNET: sandrock@uiucscs Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Internet: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Chemical Sciences Computing Services Voice: 217-244-0561 505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801