Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!VAX1.CC.UAKRON.EDU!mcs.kent.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle!data.nas.nasa.gov!news
From: mayne@nu.cs.fsu.edu (William (Bill) Mayne)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Body and Soul?
Message-ID: <1990Oct16.052448.4454@nas.nasa.gov>
Date: 16 Oct 90 05:24:48 GMT
Sender: news@nas.nasa.gov
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University
Lines: 71
Approved: prabhu@amelia.nas.nasa.gov
In-Reply-To: <1990Sep13.000952.27231@nas.nasa.gov>



  [The next few articles are actually old ones that were held up due
   to inews being off at my site (at least on my machine). My apologies
   for the delay -- Dinesh Prabhu]

In article <1990Sep13.000952.27231@nas.nasa.gov> you write:
>
>A question.
>
>Suppose we accept that there is a soul, and that we are reincarnated. At
>some time, therefore, the soul must enter the body (since it comes
>intact from a previous life). When does it do this? Before we are born?
>After? At the same time? Are there any references in religious texts (please
>give them) on this?

The short Buddhist answer is that the rebirth consciousness ("soul", if
you will, though we reject that term) doesn't enter a pre-existing body
but rather is necessary to the arising of a body and is present from
and actually a condition for conception. A bit more explanation follows:

Orthodox Buddhists accept half of this, namely reincarnation (actually
preferring "rebirth"), but not a soul. Even though I have been a Buddhist
for years and have studied and discussed this with learned monks I confess
that the distinction about "soul" is subtle. The actual word in the texts is
"atta" (Pali) or "atman" (Sanskrit). The soul-denying doctrine is "anatta",
literally "not soul", and is one of the fundamental doctrines of Buddhism.
(The other two are "anicca" or impermanence and "dukkha" or unsatisfactoriness.)

The usual explanation of annata hinges upon a clearer and more
obvious truth "anicca" or impermanence. Apparently the Brahmanical belief
in a soul prevalent at the time of the Buddha required a permanent, 
unchanging something, and this the Buddha denied. I am not so sure that 
permanence in this sense is a necessary attribute of the the western 
concept of soul. That is I don't think "soul" is an exact translation of 
"atta" or "atman". Hence there are subtleties to this which go beyond the 
immediate question. I conservative enough to be uncomfortable with
using the word "soul" in connection with Buddhism.

Having said that, I will attempt to give the traditional 
Buddhist answer with a minimum of complicating outside considerations. 
I do not have specific sources in front of me, but will try to find them if 
requested to do so. (I can pretty quickly look up some secondary sources, 
Ven. Narada'a "A Manual of Abhidhamma" comes to mind.)

Although as noted we do not call it a "soul" Buddhists believe in
something called "rebirth consciousness" (Pali "patisandhi vinnana").
This is a sort of connecting link between the last thought moment of
one life and the first thought moment of the next. It is essentially
like the continuous process of instantaneous rebirth which happens
at every moment, even within one lifetime, whereby one thought moment
disappears and is followed by another which is causally related but
not identitical to the first. But this is getting far afield from the
simple question posed. According to the Buddhist Abhidhamma texts
this rebirth conciousness is present at the moment of conception. It
is in fact a necessary ingredient of conception, along with the sperm
and egg which form the physical base. This applies not only to humans,
but to other forms of life as well, though it is recognized that not
all physical life forms arise through sexual reproduction, hence it
is modified for some lower life forms. So it is more accurate to say
that the body arises dependent upon the rebirth consciousness than to
say that at some point rebirth consciousness enters the body.

>[stuff omitted]
>Hugh Garsden
>University of Adelaide
>hugh@cs.adelaide.edu.au

Bill Mayne
Florida State University
mayne@nu.cs.fsu.edu