Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!mcsun!ukc!canon!rjf From: rjf@canon.co.uk (Robin Faichney) Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy Subject: Re: emergent properties Message-ID: <1990Oct16.094931.8462@canon.co.uk> Date: 16 Oct 90 09:49:31 GMT References: <3499@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> <1990Oct3.183522.17076@riacs.edu> <3565@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> <58130@microsoft.UUCP> <60045@bbn.BBN.COM> Sender: Robin Faichney Reply-To: rjf@canon.co.uk Organization: Canon Research Europe, Guildford, UK Lines: 45 In article <60045@bbn.BBN.COM> BKort@bbn.com (Barry Kort) writes: >In article <58130@microsoft.UUCP> gaben@microsoft.UUCP (Gabe NEWELL) asks: > >> What paradigm is currently available that can richly >> address subtleties of "I" "choose" and "know"? > >In the case of humans, neuroscience has identified various structures in >the brain which mediate behavior patterns. [..] >At every stage of development, >from infancy to old age, there are frontiers of learning in which the >knowledge, skills, and wisdom of the neocortex struggle to overcome the >primitive instincts of the subcortical regions. It is easy to tell where >these frontiers are: it is precisely where one's emotions run high. You mean there's a precise line between emotions running high and emotions not running high? ;-) >If >you montior your emotions (neurotransmitter levels, general body >chemistry, signals from the sympathetic nervous system, and involuntary >behavior patterns), How about the way you feel? >..you will recognize the frontiers between cortical and >subcortical behaviors. > >With learning (which is hard work), more and more of the body's behaviors >comes under the regulation of the higher cortical centers. In literature, >the metaphors of Devil and Angel are often used to illustrate the tension >between conscious behavior and subliminal drives. Devil as libido, yes (I don't think "subliminal" was the word you wanted here). But surely the classic Christian paradigm is heaven above, hell below, us in the middle? So angelic or saintly behaviour is an ideal towards which we are supposed to strive, not just whatever we do consciously. In reality, of course, there are many more "selves" than the "beastly" and the "saintly", and monitoring your own emotions is necessary but far from sufficient in learning to deal with them. And forcing conscious control is far from being reliably beneficial. CG Jung is probably the best source on the denizens of the collective unconscious, which is what we are discussing here. You know you CS types really should get yourselves an education! :-)