Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!timbuk!cs.umn.edu!sialis!gorf!rms From: rms@gorf.UUCP (Roger M. Shimada) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Worrying about new Macs? Message-ID: <123@gorf.UUCP> Date: 20 Oct 90 04:22:27 GMT References: <41371@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> Reply-To: rms@gorf.mn.org (Roger M. Shimada) Organization: Programmers Against Bureaucratic Incompetence Lines: 140 In article <41371@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> v092mgp5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes: > WHAT ARE YOU ALL WORRIED ABOUT??? Allright, you asked for it! [Hit 'n' now. Really, otherwise you might regret it!] > Apple has not announced anything new! [Description of the new >Macs deleted. Summary: it's not impressive hardware.] The real key machine in the annoucement was the LC. This is because it has the following options: color, internal hard drive, and //e emulation. I assume this is the machine Apple wants their K-12 market to buy into, which I'm sure they will. It's also a good medium use system, though pricey. > I agree that it would be nice for Commodore to improve, but don't you all >tihnk the 3000 was a MAJOR improvement? Yes, but...who can afford them? There is a gaping hole in the Amiga product line between the 500 and 2000. What there needs to be, soon, is an 2000 (7.1 MHz 68000) version of the 3000 motherboard in a 3000 box. Expanding 500s is awkward, the 2000 has too many slots (is plain too big in other words, and no intergral SCSI), and the 3000 is just out of most people's price range. >While Commodore might not have the >24-bit color and stuff on the motherboard, for less that the price difference >between the Mac and Amiga, you can ADD all those things. Think about this.. >when I envision the Mac II and the 3000 I can only find only one thing the Mac >beats the Amiga in: # of total colors.. Is that enough to justify the >demise of the Amiga? I think not...As soon as Apple developers come up >with a Video Toaster for Mac, I might start caring, though I don't see that >happening for a LOONNNGGGG time...'Nuff said.. > Scott >BITNET : v092mgp5@ubvms.bitnet INTERNET : v092mgp5@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu You're talking entirely about hardware. Most people couldn't care less. Yes, the Amiga can't be beat for HARDWARE bang for the buck. Would you immediately buy a Toaster if you found one forsale? Would you actually put it to practical use? What do you really need more than interfaces for a hard drive and printer? Anyway, back to the original question: Why Worry? Okay, I'll bite, but first a little backround info: I started programming by learning BASIC on an HP 2000 using teletypes. I programmed Apple IIs professionally for serveral years. The first personal computer I had real respect for was the Amiga 1000. I'm writing this response on my Unix-pc. Amiga vaporware: I think the Amiga has the dubious honor of the having some of the worse kept or never to be completed products. I picked up the first copy of AmigaWorld, and once in awhile think about Live! which took awhile to release, the Toaster, UNIX...and unspeakables like the Tecmar add-ons and Turbo Pascal. Amiga floppy drives: Using the blitter to do track based I/O was an interesting cost saving measure that wasn't worth it. 1.44MB floppies are now common in both the PC and Mac worlds. Amiga product line: As indicated above, there is a big gap between the 500 and 2000. Most of us believe that the 2000 is not cost competitive with PC clones, which it isn't for the casual user (i.e., getting software, support, and even finding a dealer in the first place). Amiga system software: It's sad that Commodore didn't take advantage of the existance of the Macintosh. Someone should have said "Hey, look at the software of this existing product! We have to release something better than this!" as opposed to "We gotta get this thing OUT!" Apple even had the forsight to have the hooks for multiligual capability - the ability to change the text in programs. So Apple can sell in such places as Japan. No resource tracking on a multi-tasking system is a shame. One of the first things that many people could do with the current generation of computers is write. One of the normal steps involved in writing is printing. I was shocked when a person needed to use a CLI to get a printer driver installed in 1.3. (This is because there are no icons for the printer drivers, so using Workbench is out.) Okay, so assuming one managed to define a printer, one would print. Most people will be using dot-matrix printers. Amigas loose to Macs here. This is inexcusable, as Apple's 9-pin dot-matrix print quality hasn't changed significantly since 1983 - when they did it on the Lisa. I worry about the 500: Well, you can't print as well as a Mac (at least not economically), so some can could use it for video. For game playing? Hm...for $150, one can pick up a Nintendo Power set...geez, the cost of some Amiga software. One would be tempted to replace the power supply and/or get a SOTS box, which I don't think anyone particularly likes. UNIX: Rumors have been flying around for over a year about UNIX on an Amiga. The story is that Commodore was about the release System V Release 3, when Release 4 became available. So the decided to wait. Pity, as I'm sure it costed them customers. Last I read C-A was waiting for a releaseable 4.1. Well, get a good product out; that's appreciated. Unfortunately, Apple has not sat still in the UNIX department. Their first release of A/UX was not well received, and they fixed it. A/UX 2.0 is still mostly System V Release 2. But it also has a version (of the awful kludge) MultiFinder. So, a Mac running the latest A/UX can have UNIX processes and Mac Applications running "simultaneously." Commando, a program that uses a graphical user interface to create command lines, is also available. Last I read AmigaDOS would not run under Amiga UNIX, which if true, will be a media laughingstock when compared to A/UX. Amiga market directions: I don't really know of any. This is tragic. The machine will have a hard time making it big without 1) software and 2) exposure, in that order. If somebody knows where the Amiga is targeted for, please tell me! -- Roger M. Shimada rms@gorf.mn.org -or- rms@gorf.sialis.com [Whichever works for you! :-(]