Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2 Path: utzoo!utstat!philip From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) Subject: Re: New Macs (was:Re: surprise for apple II) Message-ID: <1990Oct21.031236.6259@utstat.uucp> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 90 03:12:36 GMT Distribution: comp References: <7814@darkstar.ucsc.edu> Organization: Statistics, U. of Toronto In article jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeremy G. Mereness) writes: >Well, I just took at look at these new Macs, or atleast the si and the lc. >Neither one are all that special. In fact, in some ways, their damned stupid. I don't agree. The LC and the si will both find a niche. For colour Mac systems they are reasonably priced. > >The Mac LC, the cheap-color thing that's supposed to get the //e >emulation board, is basically a $2500 Mac // without NuBus slots. It >also has no math-coprocessor, something that some vendor-code takes for >granted. That's a lose. I asume people will come out with PDS boards that add a 6881. They already have 030 PDS boards ready to go from dayStar I belive. The IIe board is strictly to allow a better bridge between the Mac line and the II() line. I still can't see what is wrong with that. The strategy makes sense if Apple lowers the GS price and brings out the ROM04. The LC will sell well. Not much software requires a math coprocessor. The people who need this type of performance are unlikely to buy an LC anyway. >The price does not cover a monitor, which will run you another $600+. 2 >megs RAM and a 40 meg drive are thrown in for free, but I'm not sure >about a keyboard. The one slot is a Processor Direct to the machine's >020.... there are no cards that will fit it right now. Cards have been announced. The computer is not oriented to having slots. Nothing wrong with that. Slots cost money. >The Mac //si is intended for the Low-end Unix workstation market. It >comes with an 80 meg drive and 5 megs RAM. The price is $4600 >(monochrome). There is one slot, and the math-coprocessor is an option. >To get A/UX, you shell out another $800-1000, and another $300 for >Apple's X-windows. No word on a mouse with more than one button. The si is very reasonably priced. It is hardly aimed at the A/UX market. The ci is a better platform for that and not much more expensive. As far as A/UX goes, it is not clear what the educational marketing plan is for that as universities usually already have a site licence for Unix. >With only a 20 MHz 68030, the //si is a lose for a workstation. And once >you add in the cost of A/UX and a mega-pixel monitor (the little >monitors just won't do for X-windows), your cost is horrendous. I am >aware that this is supposed to fit in with the '386-Unix crowd, but why >bother when a Sparc is so cheap? or better yet, buy a NeXT? Well I can't argue with your recommendation to buy a NeXT as that is what I did. However, a 20 MHz 030 is hardly a slouch. Not too long ago the better workstations were all using it. The real problem with the Mac and UNIX is the throughput issue. The fx tries to address this but at a rather inflated price. In any case, the si is not aimed at A/UX people. If Apple can just recover some of its early enthusiasm, remind its dealers that the customer is king and exploit the GS they will be back on the right track. They make nice products. I suspect they simply grew too fast and lost track of the importance of their customers. The 6882 is an inexpensive option. >The point of this article? Well, there are so many Macs now that I have >lost track of them, and Apple's marketing seems pretty brain-dead all >over. They seriously lost stock with the //fx ($10,000) and they aren't >being too smart about things now, either. A low cost color Mac // is >needed, but not stripped of basics like slots and math-chips. And the >//si is just too much trouble for too little. Why does a low cost colour Mac need slots? Most MacII users hardly use their slots. Don't forget that SCSI will take you a long way. I do agree with the IIfx not being terribly appealing to its target audience. I doubt that Apple's marketing is "pretty brain-dead". Apple has sold a lot of computers. A heathy GS needs a healthy Mac. Remember that. As for math chips, low-end users don't need them. The si is not a lot of trouble. You simply have to decide whether you prefer NuBus or PDS. >All this time, sweat, and effort could have been spent doing better >things, like a new Apple //. How do you know that a new GS is not in the works? In any case, getting low cost Macs out there fast was absolutely critical, with Windows3.0 and the low cost of Intel based computers. I'd rather be in a stable market than one that requires upgrades every 6 months. There is an advantage to not having new GS's appearing every other day. I can only assume that Apple will now lower the price of the current GS and produce their ROM04. >|Jeremy Mereness | Support | Ye Olde Disclaimer: | >|jm7e+@andrew.cmu.edu (internet) | Free | The above represent my| >|a700jm7e@cmccvb (Vax... bitnet) | Software| opinions, alone. | >|staff/student@Carnegie Mellon U.| | Ya Gotta Love It. | Philip McDunnough University of Toronto->philip@utstat.toronto.edu [my opinions,etc...]