Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!psuvax1!psuvm!cxt105 From: CXT105@psuvm.psu.edu (Christopher Tate) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc Subject: Re: NuBus/030-Direct cards for IIsi Message-ID: <90297.220655CXT105@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 25 Oct 90 02:06:55 GMT References: <329@ub.d.umn.edu>,<90296.165727CXT105@psuvm.psu.edu> <0093EAB1.E1F7F0A0@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU> Organization: Penn State University Lines: 68 In article <0093EAB1.E1F7F0A0@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU>, sysmgr@KING.ENG.UMD.EDU (Doug Mohney) says: > >> [I ask why the IIsi coprocessor doesn't go on the motherboard] > >Lowers the cost of motherboard production and saves real estate. Apple made a >big thing about "Apple Engineering" and shrinking size (as compared to >three-letter-companies). If you are doing dPub, word processing, or graphics, >having a math coprocessor won't break you, or the speed of the machine. Okay, I'll accept this. However, I contest the claim that "doing graphics" isn't computationally intensive. You really should have a coprocessor if you're doing heavily graphics intensive work; the speed difference is noticable. >> [I say that the necessity of deciding in advance whether one wants to >> use NuBus instead of PDS is a bad thing, as is the necessity of >> paying for two coprocessors if you want to be able to use both PDS >> and NuBus] > >Babbling youngster, having meditated over this question, I think it isn't a >BAD idea. With the SE & SE/30, you got PDS. Period. With the II ci,cx,fx> you get (as I under stand) Only NuBus. You have a choice. > >The "si market" is anyone who wants a low-cost '030 machine with a color >monitor. If you need a slot, I'm willing to bet that 4 out of 5 people will >go get the NuBus gizmo, leaving 1 out of 5 to play with the processor-direct >slot...that's not a bad idea. > >It might have been NICER to put both PDS and Nubus on the board, but then >people would have been bitching about the cost of the si... (At this point, I will completely ignore the subject of whether or not the entire Macintosh line should, in fact, be less expensive.) This still doesn't explain why I have to buy the coprocessor twice if I want to use both NuBus and PDS. Why can't I just transfer the 68882 from the one adapter to the other (by putting it on a mini-card, or some such)? Apple has assumed that people are going to want to use one expansion method or the other, but not both. I'm wondering whether this will really be the case. If Macintoshes in general were significantly cheaper, then I'd believe it; people who now are locked into buying Classics (or formerly Plus's) for budget reasons could buy IIsi's instead, and be happier about getting a machine with SOME expansion capability.... However, many people have wanted to upgrade/expand their SE's, or their Plus's, which I take as evidence that the similar group of new Macintosh owners who get IIsi's will also want to upgrade. The adapter/coprocessor cards for the IIsi cost about $180 (academic). How much of that is the cost of the coprocessor? Would it really be prohibitively expensive to change the design of the adapter cards to allow coprocessors to be moved from one to another? PDS and NuBus each have their own advantages and disadvantages (NuBus is slow, but there are lots of different products available; PDS is fast, but there are currently few products available). If the coprocessor is a significant portion of the cost of the adapter cards (as implied by the fact that, contrary to Apple's past claims to the contrary, the new Macs do not come with the coprocessor standard), it would be a boon to those people on tight budgets (at whom the machine is supposedly targeted) to be able to buy their second adapter card without the additional cost of the duplicate coprocessor.... or, they could buy just one adapter, without the coprocessor, if they don't need the math boost, thereby avoiding paying money for a feature they didn't ask for. I guess I just resent not being able to pay for ONLY what I want to have, instead of being forced to pay for just those arrangements that Apple has deigned to offer us....