Path: utzoo!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!att!rutgers!sun-barr!apple!agate!shelby!portia.stanford.edu!kevinw
From: kevinw@portia.Stanford.EDU (Kevin Rudd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: The Mouse -- What is its History?
Message-ID: <1990Oct12.233815.8240@portia.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 12 Oct 90 23:38:15 GMT
References: <21056@dime.cs.umass.edu> <1123@helens.Stanford.EDU> <9028@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> <1990Oct11.174840.21598@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <9038@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
Reply-To: rudd@umunhum.Stanford.EDU.UUCP (Kevin Rudd)
Organization: Stanford University
Lines: 75

In article <9038@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) writes:
>In article <1990Oct11.174840.21598@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dorner@pequod.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Dorner) writes:
>>Using modifier keys is not much better, worse, or different than having
>>multiple buttons on the mouse, if done properly.  "Properly" I would define
>>as pretty much what an earlier poster said:
>>
>>Left button, click
>>Right button, shift-click
> >
>  Sorry if you got the impression that I was attacking that concept with my
>earlier post.
>
>  The person to whom I was responding had the opinion that multiple mouse
>buttons should be treated differently, in a standard and explicitly separate
>way by the operating system.  In fact, he was flaming what your propose.

I DO believe that mouse buttons should be treated differently both by
the system and in the hardware.  However, there is no reason that this
does means that it is incompatable with current software.
It would be just as compatable with software as a regular mouse would be
since if the application does not check for the specific button (by some
method) it would get a regular mouse down event.

As far as the EFFECT, there is no reason that the mouse couldn't PRETEND
to function as above, although the problem that there is no standardization
for MODIFIER keys even with the one button mouse...

The problem that I have with the mouse simulating both mouse and keyboard
events is that this is a real kludge.  I don't have IM here but it is
certainly possible that shift, option, and command have different key
encodings on different keyboards.  For this to be used, the mouse would
have to find out the keyboard in use (possibly a new one any day) and
know how to simulate that particular keyboard.  Either that or a software
(e.g. CDEV) to intercept mouse events and patch in a prior key down event
in the queue (also considered a no-no by Apple).

Another problem is which of SHIFT and/or CONTROL and/or OPTION and/or
COMMAND keys would be used for left-center-right.  And how is the user to
remember which modifiers should be used with which program -- since
in one program SHIFT-click does something, in another double-click, and
a third OPTION-click.  These would be respectively (perhaps) left-click,
center-double-click, and right-click (unless that is COMMAND-click in which
case it would be OPTION-center-click.  Then we would then be back to the
lisp-bindings which were previously mentioned in order to ensure a CONSISTENT
user interface.

As was noted, the multi-button mouse would be a COMPATABLE OPTION (and an
upgrade -- nobody complains that they HAD to get an extended keyboard with
all of those really confusing keys, did they?) and would
ONLY be supported as an ENHANCEMENT to the standard features as the new
keyboards were for the Mac (try using a new keyboard with an old mac --
even with an ADB to serial converter box! -- most keys would be useless
with out software support from Apple...).

For background, my driving goal is to use
A/UX and X11 more effectively, and using the mouse and the keyboard at the
same time is awkward.  And the Mac could also use the same interface.
Yes, the buttons could certainly ACT as if they had a modifier key in some
applications, but many application) would really like to know what REALLY
happened and to act accordingly.  Making the mouse play keyboard as well
prevents this and applications could suffer the penalty.

Remember, I'm not proposing the specific user interface problems, I am
just trying to explain wy making the mouse mimic a keyboard is a BAD IDEA.
There are many, many possibilities for a real interface -- including the
addition of popup menus and so forth.  That is a different issue.  However,
the solution to the one button mouse must be self-complete and -consistent.
And I believe that it is clear that making the mouse pretend to be a keyboard
to make it work is neither.

Finally, progress shouldn't be kludged when better alternatives exist.
Kludges are for PC's -- they NEED them.  Or do you really think that a PC with
Windows 3.0 as good or better than a Mac in the general case?

  -- Kevin