Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!bionet!arisia!roo!zany.EuroPARC.Xerox.COM!lovstran From: Lovstrand@EuroPARC.Xerox.COM (Lennart Lovstrand) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: SPARCstation 2 --> workstation wars Message-ID: <588@roo.UUCP> Date: 23 Oct 90 12:46:07 GMT References: <9010180146.AA09967@mcs-server.gac.edu> <2090@island.uu.net> <579@roo.UUCP> <1990Oct20.003611.28732@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu> Sender: news@parc.xerox.com Organization: Rank Xerox EuroPARC, Cambridge, UK Lines: 68 In article <1990Oct20.003611.28732@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu>, brtmac@maverick.ksu.ksu.edu (Brett McCoy) writes: > In <579@roo.UUCP> Lovstrand@EuroPARC.Xerox.COM (Lennart Lovstrand) writes: > > I couldn't agree less with your general sentiment! I don't know about [Hrrm, that should have been "more" of course. But then again, "less" is "more", right? (Or so the doc says at least. ;-)] > > NeXTs specifically, but in my experience, installing your generic UNIX box > > usually requires an MSc in Computer Science to get everything right. This > > includes everything from acquiring and setting up an IP subnet to loading > > up a DNS server, getting the latest version of sendmail, ftpd, etc from the > > Net and installing them, etc, etc. This is just ridiculous in comparison > > to the Mac (and Xerox XNS) world. > > While I'll agree that setting up a UNIX box takes more brains than your > average Mac user has, it isn't impossible by any means. Even I, a lowly > ugrad, can set up and install a system from the ground up. It does take > more work and investment of time than most people are willing to impart > though. But, all of the things you complain about taking so much time > and effor (i.e. sendmail, ftpd, DNS, etc.) aren't even available for your > average Mac, so why compare them. Hmm, is that really true? There are name lookup services on Appletalk (NBP), as well as print services, file services, and mail services. And if you want to claim that they are limited in scope and function, I won't argue with you but rather point you to the Xerox Network Services which support all of this and more over very large internetworks (10,000+ nodes) but with comparatively very little administration. [It's by no means perfect, but it serves well as an example.] To get a new Mac or Xerox Workstation -- or server -- set up on a net, all you typically need to do is plug it in and maybe give it a name. It acquires the net and node numbers from the network directly and starts advertising its service automatically. Not so with any UNIX boxes I know. Look, I'm not saying that you *have* to have a degree to do this stuff and I'm sure you're doing a great job at it. But try giving it to Joe Random Luser and watch him sweat (and cry!) over setting up UUCP links and/or sendmail.cf for example. All I'm arguing is that there is no reason why it should be as hard as it is and require as much knowledge about networking etc as it currently does to set up a networked computer. > As far as setting up a single user, > standalone Sun goes, just stick the installation tape in the drive, sit > down with your installation manual and turn it on. Sure, if it's a standalone machine... But then plug it in on a network and watch hell break lose when duplicate addresses and broadcast storms start flourishing. OK, I don't know -- maybe all Suns don't come with the same IP address and use all-zeroes for broadcasts any more. It doesn't matter, I'm sure there's something else broken instead ;-). > It may take longer to set up, but the difference > between what an average Sun can do and what an average Mac can do is > ridiculous in comparison, especially considering the price comparison. Yup, CPU/OS-wise I agree with you, but how about comparing what your average Sun and Mac *user* can do instead? The machine and the user aren't necessarily the same, you know. I guess another way of putting it is that there is a great number of non-hacker/computer science users out there who could benefit from high powered workstations -- if they just were packaged the right way. [My opinion is not necessarily the same as Xerox' etc etc] -- --Lennart R _A _ N_ K Rank Xerox EuroPARC, 61 Regent St, Cambridge, UK \/ |_ |_) | | \/ Zany, Sun-4/60 at EuroPARC, SunOS Release 4(0.3c)-3 /\ |_ | \ |_| /\ TOPS-20 Command processor 7(86)-4 [alpha] E u r o P A R C