Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mstar!mstar.morningstar.com!bob From: bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next Subject: Re: Alternatives to the Window System from Planet X Message-ID: Date: 23 Oct 90 15:21:47 GMT References: <34207@nigel.ee.udel.edu> Sender: usenet@MorningStar.COM (USENET Administrator) Reply-To: bob@MorningStar.Com (Bob Sutterfield) Distribution: comp.sys.next Organization: Morning Star Technologies Lines: 51 In-Reply-To: tim@ggumby.cs.caltech.edu's message of 22 Oct 90 18:56:56 GMT In article tim@ggumby.cs.caltech.edu (Timothy L. Kay) writes: Neither NeXTstep nor NeWS let you run over the network... If you don't want to bog down your network, don't run X over the network. But don't keep me from doing it. NeWS certainly runs over the network. Just telnet to TCP socket 144 on any machine running a NeWS server, and whisper PostScript in its ear. NeXTstep ... is a good environment, except that it doesn't run over the network. It would be great if I could run Mathematica on one workstation and have another workstation display the output. NeXTStep applications certainly do run over the network. They communicate over Mach ports, which traffic can traverse an IP internet. Unfortunately, not every machine on the network runs Mach, and therefore most can't talk to your NeXTStep server. The stubs still exist in the source (or did, at least during the summer before the Cube was released) to accept connections via TCP-domain sockets, having been used during NeXT's development process while debugging the port stuff. Despite my vigorous protestations and those of several others, Steve didn't see any advantage in this. The capability was unfortunately removed from the production version. (Why would I want to do this? Suppose somebody else in the building has a NeXT with 32 MB RAM, while mine has only 8 MB. I don't want to work in his office, but I'd like to run M on his machine.) Why would I want to communicate via TCP sockets (as do NeWS and X)? Suppose somebody else in the building, or halfway around the planet on the Internet, has a Butterfly or a Sequent or a Convex or a Cray. I'd like to be able to compile NeXTStep applications to run on his machine but display on mine (just as I do now with NeWS and X). This would enable the NeXT to become better integrated with the rest of the existing computing environment. Terminal emulation isn't enough, and that's part of why people clamored for X. Oh yeah, NeXT doesn't ship the sources to their libraries, so nobody can run their applications on anything but a NeXT box. Despite my vigorous protestations and those of several others, Steve didn't see any advantage in this ("The PC and the Mac are big successes without shipping sources.") They still don't ship library sources, but even if they did, you'd still need Mach ports to use them. Sigh... To NeXT: Please provide TCP socket access to your window server, and please establish some way for "qualified" developers to have access to the necessary sources to build NeXTStep applications on arbitrary computers.