Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!samsung!umich!vela!egrunix!awesley From: awesley@egrunix.UUCP (Tony Wesley) Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle Subject: Re: The shuttle is destroying the ozone layer? Message-ID: <691@egrunix.UUCP> Date: 24 Oct 90 20:21:27 GMT References: <143360@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> <10314.2711c063@pbs.org> <1990Oct10.221645.29969@pmafire.UUCP> <1990Oct19.022310.14985@midway.uchicago.edu> <1990Oct23.030624.7555@cimage.com> <685@egrunix.UUCP> <1990Oct24.152800.12636@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> Organization: National Federation of Associations Lines: 93 In article <1990Oct24.152800.12636@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu> sally@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (Sally Roberts) writes: (I wrote) >>Clorine is what causes the damage. The Cl reacts with the ozone in a ^^^^^^^ [note the spelling, Sally!] >Oh, and of course, that little fluorine atom is completely innocent!! After ^^^^^^ >all, fluorine is just one of the most reactive elements ever discovered, and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ [precisely!] >only bonds with everything it can get a hold on. Halogens of all sorts do this >to some extent, of course, but fluorine, not chlorine, is the worst. Pure >fluorocarbons, I believe, are more damaging than chlorofluorocarbons. Oh? >............................................................If anyone >really wants them, I can find statistics on which halogenated carbons cause >the most damage. You don't hear as much about fluorocarbon damage anymore >because their use has been banned, while CFC's are still permitted to some >extent, although they too are on the way out. Perhaps there's a reason why the >fluorocarbons were banned first? and perhaps there's also a reason why people >aren't as worried about HCl as they are about CFCs? CFCs are definitely worse. They are?? I would like to see the statistics. Yes, Fluorine is extremely reactive, more so than clorine. From what I understood Asimov to write, F clings to the Carbon so tightly that UV does not knock it loose, while the Cl can be knocked loose. Therefore, CFCs do not deliver Fluorine to the upper atmosphere. One of the reasons Isaac mentions is that the F atom is small (the "little fluorine atom" you mention) while the Cl atom is larger and gets in the way. Let me quote Asimov "the bonds holding the carbon and fluorine atoms together are so tight that almost nothing will budge them. Fluorocarbons will not burn, dissolve in water, or react with almost anything." " . . .ultraviolet light, which is more energetic than ordinary light, is energetic enough to break clorine atoms away from the Freon molecule." "It is thereofre difficult to get very any large chlorocarbons . . . " ". . . fluorocarbons could be formed much more easily than any of the other halocarbons and would involve long carbon chains." >BTW, people, note that the correct spelling of Cl is chlorine, not cluorine. >Just because it sounds like fluorine doesn't mean that you spell it the same >way!!Also note that it's fluorine, not flourine. Please, people, if you're >going to go around ranting about other people's mistakes, at least rant >correctly. Yes, Sally, please rant correctly. I try not to rant, myself. Hopefully, I was giving correct information. At least I gave a source, while you give none. I am open to correction if you have any sources of contrary information. I also wrote: >>catalytic fashion. The reactions that occur are: > >> Cl + O -> ClO + O >> 3 2 > >> and > >> ClO + O -> Cl + 2O >> 3 2 Now lets try this with Fluorine. F + O -> FO + O 3 2 and FO + O -> F + 2O ???! 3 2 I'm not a chemist, but I don't understand how "one of the most reactive elements" is going to free itself up in the second equation. Repeating source of information: >>I learned much about this from a book by Isaac Asimov, _The Planet That >>Wasn't_. The chapters "The Smell of Electricity," "Silent Victory," and >>"Change of Air" deal with the ozone layer and the mechanism by which CFCs >>reduce it. -- And little Sir John with his nut brown bowl Tony Wesley/RPT Software And his brandy in the glass voice: (313) 274-2080 And little Sir John with his nut brown bowl awesley@unix.secs.oakland.edu Proved the strongest man at last... Compu$erve: 72770,2053