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From: jan@orc.olivetti.COM (Jan Parcel)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Newspaper Article
Message-ID: <9010190049.AA12313@Siena.ORC.Olivetti.Com>
Date: 19 Oct 90 02:54:43 GMT
References: <4836@sarah> <1990Oct12.214229.23575@nntp-server.caltech.edu> <60497.271b504a@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> <1990Oct18.003900.28134@nntp-server.caltech.edu>
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In article <1990Oct18.003900.28134@nntp-server.caltech.edu> morphy@truebalt.cco.caltech.edu (Jones Maxime Murphy) writes:
>You're missing the point. A *male* god sent down a *male* to redeem
>us.  That's a significant sign of androcentrism.

I like the theologian who points out that standard theology, as in "It
is not because you were the greatest of nations I chose you..," says
that God chooses the form *least* like God for revelation.  Just as
David was short and little so that it would be a miracle for him to
beat Goliath, so was Jesus incarnated in the *least* meek form, in the
form *least* likely to suffer and die without fighting back, so that
it would be clear that it was God and not the material chosen for the
revelation that was functioning.  In other words, just as mighty God
chose poor little David, so did feminine God choose poor male Jesus to
show us how God does the "saving" thing.

You see, the same writing can be interpreted many ways from within the
same tradition, depending on what outcome the interpreter is
predisposed towards.

>The ordination of women ranks very low on my list of threats to the
>Catholic church's vitality.

Firstly, I consider the *lack* of ordination of women to be a threat
to the churches' vitality.  But some of this all follows.  The
Catholic stance is that women don't "resemble" Christ.  I agree with
the quote "What Christ did not suffer, Christ did not redeem.", i.e.
either He took human form and redeemed all humans or he took man's
form and redeemed all men.  Either way, I belong in a church with
women priests.  (All of the above is INTERNAL logic, not an assertion
of truth aimed at non-Christians)

>The church's stand on birth control,
>abortion and divorce rank far higher.

These stands are decided in councils of priests and bishops.  If they
start ordaining and consecrating women, eventually the councils'
makeup will change.

>I'm impressed by the misguided tenacity with which people attempt to
>rationalize and even deny the gender bias of Judaeo-Christian-Islamic
>tradition.  I realize now that I was quite lucky to survive my years of
>Catholic indoctrination with my ability to question reasonably intact.

It was *very* painful to me to arrive at the conclusion that my
religion, in which I had experienced much genuine joy and growth, was
extremely gender-biased.  For a long time, I tried to get other people
at church to see it my way.  But they could see I was hurting, which
hardly made me an example to emulate.  Later I stopped attending, but
I haven't yet gone to another religion, and from what I am hearing, my
denomination may very well catch up to me yet.

And the "underground" in the American Catholic church is the most
vital, amazing, radical, loving, movement of the whole bunch! (I am
Episcopalian.)  You would be surprised what dissidents can do to
revitalize an institution.  I don't think the issue is decided yet.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ jan@orc.olivetti.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We must worship Universal Consciousness as each of the 5 genders in turn
if we wish to be fully open to Yr glory.
						-- St. Xyphlb of Alpha III