Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!aero!eleazar.dartmouth.edu From: llama@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Joe Francis) Newsgroups: soc.feminism Subject: Re: Who's Exploiting Who? Summary: which hunts on porn Keywords: spam spam which hunts spam spam holier than thou spam spam Message-ID: <25200@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 19 Oct 90 17:04:48 GMT References: <65210@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> Sender: nadel@aerospace.aero.org Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Lines: 55 Approved: nadel@aerospace.aero.org Status: R Kaveh Baharestan writes: >No, that's stereotyping. With very few exceptions it is the men in >the porn flicks that degrade the women, or the women doing or saying >self-degredant(is that a word - should be ;->) actions and lines. >Men, generally are not degraded. They do not beg, usually. And they >are almost always in control of any situation. I see. If you say women are degraded, they are. If I say men are degraded, they aren't. >Then, of course, there is the rape aspect of pornography. Most >pornographic material has elements of rape, or down right, out-and-out >forcible (most times without an actual beating) rape. 90% of the porn >that I have ever seen involved a woman, who at one point, says "no" or >has an erotic scene that involves a woman and a stranger in a >situation that would normally be construed as rape (eg. burgler with >knife breaks into home of woman--they proceed to do whatever...) >Point being, do you know anyone who would be excited (sexually) by a >burgler, a guy in an alley....? Porn promotes rape. (Well, that's >for another group. there's a few great papers by Griffin(sp?) of rape >and pornography, i recommend them highly.) Ahh, the famous, bogus, porn promotes rape argument. Porn is not strongly linked to rape. Depictions of violence (such as we see all over TV and movies) is strongly linked to rape and other violence. The everyday violence we see on TV contributes far more to rape and other real world violence than porn. It is also false that most porn depicts rape. >>>There is no pornography that does not promote one >>>or more of these ideas in its viewer-readers. So the fight agianst >>>Porn is the fight for equality. (this does not mean that I believe the >>>church fanatics are correct - as one article i read said, the church >>>and pornographers are codependent.) The fight against porn is a which hunt. If porn degrades women, then the Bakers degrade religious leaders. Pro wrestling degrades amateur wrestling. The enquirer degrades the Washington Post. You allow me the legal right to publish print stating that women are inherently inferior, that they deserve any treatment they get from men, that their only reason for existence is to please men and make babies. You grant me and anyone else to degrade as much as we want in print, and then argue for criminalizing porn because it is degrading (or are you not trying to criminalize porn? If not, what are talking about with "the fight against porn"?) If our culture did not have a long history of casting it's repressive sexual "morals" into law, the "fight against porn" would be easily spotted for what it is. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If our moderation really upsets you [...] then unsubscribe." - CLT ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Read My Lips: No Nude Texans!" - George Bush clearing up a misunderstanding