Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!paul.rutgers.edu!christian From: gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Sorry folks, it's NOT all relative. Message-ID: Date: 19 Oct 90 08:20:21 GMT Sender: hedrick@paul.rutgers.edu Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 182 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article daveh@tekcrl.labs.tek.com (David Hatcher) writes: > > And rather the Christian likes it or not, people all over the world > who are not Christian are ALSO very much aware of the presence of God, > AND living with in His Grace and Glory. So, yes, I agree with you in > that many Christians may be put into a position where they have to > rethink what they believe is and what is not truth. > > The Glories and Grace of God are boundless. Boundless has no bounds. > And neither does God. I point to the saints and ordinary people of > religions other than Christianity whom ALSO know God as proof of > that point. Okay, David, lets take a look at some of these other religions. I'll start with one that is rather large and influential within the Eastern traditions. From it have come a number of other religions. This religion is Hinduism. Some of the religions that have come from Hinduism are Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. A precise definition of Hinduism is not easy because it has absorbed innumerable customs and concepts and has branched off into many other religions, some radically differnet from their source. There are so many schools of Hindu thought today that almost anything said about this vast religion must be qualified. Their major sacred texts are: the Vedas, Brahmans, Aranyakas, Upanishads, and Bhagavad-gita; the Rig Veda is probably the most important (it contains 1028 hymns to the gods). Today, there are a number of groups worldwide who are attempting to carry one or another of the Hindu sects to non-Hindus. Some of these groups are Transcendental Meditation, ISKCON, Divine Light Mission, to name only three. Generally, Hindus accept the following key concepts: 1. Three ways of salvation: knowledge, works, and devotion. 2. Doctrine of transmigration of the soul (reincarnation). Most Hindus consider that they have many incarnations ahead of them before they can find final slavation, although some sects believe that a gracious divinity will carry them along the way more quickly. 3. Karma (essentially, you get what your actions deserve; it is karma that keeps people chained to the wheel of (re)birth, life, death.) 4. Brahma(n) (impersonal cosmic power) 5. Atman (reality in individual forms) 6. Maya (the material world is not real) 7. Advaita (all things are part of Brahman) 8. Dharma (moral and religious duty) 9. Samsara (life is bondage under karma) While Brahma seems to be the main god, there are several others. In some cases, these other gods have far greater importance. They are: 1. Vishnu (the preserver) 2. Shiva (the destroyer) 3. Shakti (the great mother goddess) Now with this bevy of gods, which one is the God that you talk of, David? Personally, I do not recognize any of these gods. What I see here is a polytheistic and idolatrous religion based upon works. Out of the concept of karma came a view that permitted the formation of castes, which still is in effect today. There is no recognition of sin and moral guilt. Sin is an illusion. In fact, one guru, whose name escapes me right now, said that it was a sin to say that there are sinners. Well, what about Buddhism? Buddhism arose out of the atheistic strands of Hinduism current in India in the 6th century BC. Gautama, called "the Buddha" (Enlightened One), is said to have doiscovered that both the life of luxury and the life of extreme asceticism were of no use in gaining spiritual freedom; thus, he propounded the "Middle Way." His teaching, however, underwent many transformations. Again, there are many schools within Buddhism. The three major ones are: 1. Therevada: more austere of the schools. 2. Mahayana: developed a grandiose cosmology and a pantheon of semi-deities. 3. Zen: technically a Mahayana sect but has closer affinities with Therevada. I won't go into the Three Jewels of Buddhism to save space. The concepts that are key to Buddhism are: 1. Karma 2. Nirvana (the goal of human existence) 3. Dhukkha (suffering) 4. Anicca (impermanence) 5. Anatta (not-self [no permanent unchanged ego]) These come together in the Four Noble Truths: 1. Life is full of pain and suffering. 2. Suffering is caused by tanha (the desire or thirst for pleasure, existence, and property) 3. Suffering can be overcome by eliminating these cravings. 4. This is done by following the Eight-fold path. I won't list the Eight-fold path, again to save to space. There is no absolute God in Buddhism, although many have interpreted Buddhism as a search for God. The Buddha did not deny the existence of God outright, but said that the question of His existence "tends not to edification." That is, those seeking enlightenment need to concentrate on their own spiritual paths themselves rather then relying on an outside support. Many Buddhists believe the existence of suffering and evil in the world is evidence against belief in God. Although belief in an ultimate God is opposed by nearly all Buddhists, the Mahayana school developed notions of the Buddha as still existing for the sake of men and propounded the existence of many semi-divine beings, who came to be represented in art and have been revered in ways very similar to worship of Hindu gods. So where in Buddhism is the Grace and Glory of God? I don't see it. Again, I see a religion of works. But hear what God says through the Bible: "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD [YHVH] hath laid on him [Jesus] the iniquity of us all." (Isaiah 53:6 KJV) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8, 9 KJV) "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John 6:28-29 KJV) "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12 KJV) "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6 KJV) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1 KJV) Apart from Lord Jesus Christ, David, there is no salvation. Without Him there can be no way to God. And there is only one, true, and living God, for YHVH says that there are none other than Him, nor has He created any. And apart from YHVH there is no grace or glory. So again, I must ask, which other religion offers to mankind salvation and truth? What God is this that others know? Certainly the gods of the Hindus cannot qualify for they are many and YHVH knows them not. Further, YHVH says that He has not created any; He is the only one. But the way of salvation is clear: believe on Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and repent. He then indwells you and cleanses you from all sin. There are no works involved in salvation. The works come afterward when you are empowered by the Holy Spirit. And those works will be of God for the Spirit indwells us both to will and to do the will and works of God. Because He lives, Gene Gross