Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: jwm@stdc.jhuapl.edu (Jim Meritt ) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Jesus' resurrection Message-ID: Date: 22 Oct 90 06:21:16 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 109 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Watching people trying to "prove" the resurrection is usually quite entertaining, primarily because they go about it so badly. For instance, witnesses are claimed. When it is pointed out that the witnesses are not available, it is then claimed that since the witnesses are not, then their statements will be taken (a'la court of law). And then it is pointed out that their statements are not available, just what someone ELSE wrote they said they say. Hearsay. But let's use a bit of legalise cross-examination on the accounts that ARE available - though they are second-hand... MATTHEW [28:1] ... Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the grave. [2] Suddenly there was a strong earthquake; an angel of the Lord came from heaven, rolled the stone away, and sat on it [4] The guards were so afraid that they trembled and became like dead men. [5] The angel spoke to the women, "You must not be afraid ... Jesus ... [6] ... has been raised ... [7] ... Quickly now, goand tell his disciples, 'He has been raised from death, and now he is going to Galilee ahead of you; there will you see him'. [8] So they left the grave in a hurry ... and ran to tell his disciples. [9] Suddenly Jesus met them and said, "Peace be with you." ... [10] .. "... Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee,and there they will see me." [16] The eleven disciples went to the hill in Galilee where Jesus had told them to go. [17] When they saw him they worshippedhim, even though some doubted. MARK [16:1] ... Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome ... [2] ... went to the grave [3-4] On the way they said to one another, "Who will roll away for us the stone ...?" ... then they looked up and saw that the stone had already been rolled back. [5] So they entered the grave, where they saw a youngman sitting at the right ... [6] "Don't be alarmed," he said. "... Jesus ... has been raised! ... [7] Now go and give this message to his disciples, including Peter: 'He is going to Galilee ahead of you, there you will see him, just as he told you'" [8] So they ... ran from the grave ... they said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid. [9] After Jesus rose from death ... he appeared first to Mary Magdalene ... [10] She went out and told it to his companions ... [11] ... they did not believe her. [12] After this, Jesus appeared in a different manner to two of them while they were on their way to the country. [13] They returned and told it to the others, but they would not believe it. [14] Last of all, Jesus appeared to the eleven disciple as they were eating. He scolded them, because they did not have faith ... [19] After the Lord Jesus had talked with them, he was taken up to heaven ... LUKE [24:1] ... the women went to the grave ... [2] they found the stone rolled awayfrom the entrance to the grave, [3] so they went in; but they did not find the body ... [4] suddenly two men ... stood by them. [5] ... the men said to them, "... he has been raised ..." [8] ... the women ... [9] returned from the grave and told all these things to the eleven disciples and all the rest. [10] The women were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James; they and the other women with them told these things ... [11] But the apostles ... did not believe them. [12] But Peter ... ran to the grave ... and saw the grave clothesand nothing else ... [13] On that same two of them were going to a village named Emmaus ... [15] ... Jesus himself drew near and walked with them; [16] they saw him but somehow did not recognize him ... [33] they got up at once andwent back to Jerusalem, where they found the eleven disciples ... [34] and saying, "The Lord is risen indeed! He has appeared to Simon!". [36] While they were telling them this, suddenly the Lord himself stood among them ... [50] then he led them out of the city as far as Bethany ... [51] As he was blessing them, he departed from them and was taken into heaven. JOHN [20:1] ... Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been taken away from the entrance. [2] She ran and went to Simon Peter and the otherdisciple whom Jesus loved and told them, "They have taken the Lord from the tomb and we don't know where they have put him!" [3] Then Peter and the other disciple ... went to the tomb. [4] ... but the other disciple ran faster than Peter and reached the tomb first. [5] He bent over and saw the linen clothes, but he did not go in. [6] Behind him came Simon Peter, and he went straight into the tomb ... [8] then the other disciple also went in; he saw and believed. [10] Then the disciples went back home. [11] Mary stood crying outside the tomb ... and looked in the tomb, [12] and saw two angels there ... sitting where the body of Jesus had been ... [13] "Woman, why are you crying?" they asked her. She answered, "They have taken my Lord ..." [14] When she said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there; but she did not know it was Jesus. [15] "Woman, why are you crying?" Jesus asked her. "Who is it you are looking for?" She thought he was the gardener, so she said to him, "If you took him away, sir, tell me where you have put him ..." [16] Jesus said to her,"Mary!" ... [17] "Do not hold on to me," Jesus told her, "...But go to my brothers and tell them for me, 'I go back up to him who is my Father ..." [18] So Mary Magdalene went and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord ... [19] It was late that Sunday evening, and the disciples were gathered together indoors again, and Thomas (called the Twin), was not with them when Jesus came ... [26] A week later the disciples were together indoors again, and Thomas with them. The doors were locked, but Jesus came and stood among them ... [21:1] After this, Jesus showed himself once more to his disciples at Lake Tiberias. ---------------------- CONTRADICTIONS: I hardly know where to begin; there are so many contradictions. I'll just list some of the major problems: *** First people to see the tomb early Sunday MATTHEW: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary MARK: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Salome LUKE: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, other women JOHN: Mary Magdalene *** What they see MATTHEW: An angel rolling away the stone and sitting on it, on the way back they see Jesus as they run MARK: The stone already rolled away, a young man sitting inside LUKE: The stone already rolled away, two men standing inside JOHN: The stone already rolled away, an empty tomb, they run back to get Peter and John, they also see an empty tomb then leave, Mary then sees two angels sitting inside, she then turns around and sees Jesus *** Appearances of Jesus MATTHEW: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary; some time later he appears to the 11 in Galilee (where Jesus said he'd meet them) MARK: Mary Magdalene; then to two disciples; then to the 11 as they are eating together; then he ascends to heaven (Note that Mark 16:1-8 and Mark 16:9-19 seem to be different accounts) LUKE: two disciples (the same day); then to the 11 in Jerusalem (the same evening), takes them to Bethany ans ascends heaven JOHN: Mary Magdalene (on her second trip to the grave); then to the 11 minus Thomas (the same evening); then to the full 11 (a week later); some time later to 7 disciples as Lake Tiberias Hardly something suitable for legal, let alone "scientific" proof. Better go back to faith...