Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!bcm!dimacs.rutgers.edu!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: lshaw@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (logan shaw) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Discipleship Message-ID: Date: 25 Oct 90 07:07:37 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: The University of Texas at Austin Lines: 76 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article gross@dg-rtp.dg.com (Gene Gross) writes: >I recently began reading John F. MacArthur's book _The Gospel According >to Jesus_. In there, I found the following on page 30. > >"James M. Boice, in his book, "Christ's Call to Discipleship", writes >with insight about the salvation/discipleship dichotomy, which he >frankly describes as "defective theology": > >"The call to Calvary must be recognized for what it is: a call to >discipleship under the lordship of Jesus Christ. To respond to that >call is to become a believer. Anything less is simply unbelief." First of all, whenever a question like this comes up, I like to mention that most of the answers are in Romans. Read it carefully and prayerfully and it will clear alot of this topic up. >I wondered how others see this. Do you believe that we only need to >accept Jesus as Savior and that at some future point we accept His >Lordship? That's rather debatable. I _don't_ think you can accept Christ as _only_ a means to salvation. It's not possible to knowingly accept only salvation intending not to follow God. BUT, it is possible to accept Him without knowing all the details of what it entails. (i.e. to think "God, I haven't read all the fine print, but I know I need You"). /* I'd quote a certain verse here, but I can't remember it -- something */ /* about not being able to fool God by only wanting salvation. */ > Do you see it as necessary to count all the costs that every >will be required to be a disciple before you can be saved? What if you >don't know all the costs at that point in time--are not saved? How can you count all the costs? You can't know exactly what following Christ will entail -- just that whatever it is, you'll do it. Besides, nobody can make Christ completely the Lord of their life; if they did, they wouldn't ever sin again (and we know that everybody sins). Basically, making Christ the Lord of your life is a daily struggle. It's not a part of being saved, since salvation is a gift. But it's foolishness not to do it. God won't stand for it if you're trying to intentionally rip him off, but if you just don't know to do it, or don't do it because you're human and you mess up, God can forgive you for that sin as he can for every other. If you think "get salvation" when you think "become Christian", then all is not well, but if you think "trust God (and therefore get salvation and follow Him)" when you think "become Christian", then you're on the right track. > Is there >a difference in the costs of discipleship between prosperity and >persecution that affects the presentation of the Gospel? What is the >Gospel that we are to preach and teach? I think the most important thing to do is to trust God. You should be willing to do anything necessary to follow God, whether that means giving up everything you own (either a little or a lot), or giving up your life or whatever. Just because you're prosperous doesn't mean you can't be a disciple of Christ, but you aren't guaranteed you will stay prosperous. :-) All of this doesn't mean we should be satisfied with getting people to the point of salvation and leaving them there. We should teach them that they have to continue growing as well. Well, there it is -- you asked my thoughts and now you've got them. What does everybody else think? >For His glory, > >Gene Gross But there's more to this life than living and dying,\ Logan Shaw More than just trying to make it through the day, \lshaw@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu More to this life, more than these eyes alone can see,\ Amiga 2000, C= 1084 And there's more than this life alone can be. \ GVP 40Q, 8-up!