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From: JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET (Josh Hayes)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: emergent properties
Message-ID: <90302.163701JAHAYES@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: 29 Oct 90 21:37:01 GMT
References: <1990Sep29.213139.2876@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <3499@media-lab.MEDIA.MIT.EDU> <ABOULANG.90Oct27121147@poincare.bbn.com>
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service
Lines: 35

I seem to be hearing that many out there believe there is no such
thing as emergence, reasoning that (paraphrased) "if we REALLY
and FULLY understood the system and property in question, we would
understand how that property arises, therefore it would no longer
be emergent". This seems to me to miss the point (and is probably
an unfair characterization, to boot, but where would we be without
rhetoric? :-) ), which OUGHT to be that systems describable as
hierarchical in some sense can have properties which "reside" at
particular levels in the system, or are observable only when the
system achieves some minimum level of complexity. Again, I harp
on ecosystem theory for examples. Ecosystems have properties, or
descriptors, which are meaningless when applied to the parts of
the system, or even to the collection of the parts without the
structure inherent in the system. That these properties are of
the ecosystem itself, and not just a conglomerate of some property
shared by its parts, is a non-trivial point, and I must add, one
which is not taken as proven in this case....
 
With respect to AI, I missed the initiation of this thread, but
I suspect it had something to do with consciousness and where
consciousness resides. The idea that a complete understanding of
the brain, mind, and the relationship between the two, would render
the question answerable does not vitiate the fact that consciousness
is not resident in individual neurons (or is it?), but somewhere
in there, as complexity accrues, it shows up. That is an important
property in human, or at least biological, cognition. Whether it is
necessary to be applied to AI systems is to me unclear. I have a
couple of readings that I might suggest to go along with this, but
I'll have to rummage through my reprint files for a bit...stay tuned.
 
Josh Hayes, Zoology Department, Miami University, Oxford OH 45056
voice: 513-529-1679      fax: 513-529-6900
jahayes@miamiu.bitnet, or jahayes@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
"Ain't nothin' worth nothin' that ain't no trouble."
                         --unidentified gardener, Austin, TX