Xref: utzoo comp.sys.m88k:436 comp.arch:18888 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!winchester!mash From: mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) Newsgroups: comp.sys.m88k,comp.arch Subject: Re: Tektronix shutdown & move away from 88k's?? Message-ID: <42589@mips.mips.COM> Date: 31 Oct 90 23:10:23 GMT References: <1990Oct14.003906.26373@wolves.uucp> <1536@ftc.framentec.fr> <1990Oct19.120218.9450@canterbury.ac.nz> <656404917.9119@proa.sv.dg.com> <1095@dg.dg.com> Sender: news@mips.COM Reply-To: mash@mips.COM (John Mashey) Followup-To: comp.sys.m88k Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc. Lines: 91 In article <1095@dg.dg.com> quirk@dg-rtp.dg.com (Peter Quirk) writes: >The 88K is not going away. In fact, Motorola has announced (leaked?) >news of the 88110 >recently and published a broad brush roadmap for the 88K cpu for the >next ten years. >They predict they will be delivering 400 MIPS on a CMOS chip before the >end of the decade. >Almost as interesting was the announcement of the 88300 - a combination >of the 88110 and >68030 I/O for embedded controller applications. All those 68030-based >controllers will >start screaming when fitted with an 88300. Sigh. There is a discussion theme going on, here, and in comp.arch, about the unreliability of second/third/fourth-hand information. The discussion takes the form of: A: I hear that magazine X printed that Y said such and such, or that company Q is doing or has done Z. B: I was there, Y didn't say that, X got it wrong OR: I work for Q, and we didn't do Z; here are the true facts I thought that more of the details of this particular issue (88110) were covered in <42311.mips.mips.com>, posted October 23. If thatr got lost somewhere, I'll repost it: it quoted the interesting parts of the presentation, a copy of which is on my bookshelf. The number given was 4000 mips/chip, and the presentation at Microprocessor Forum was explicitly NOT an announcement; no dates were given, other than to say (under pressure from audience) it would be announced next year. A single foil covered the 88300 family: "Family of integrated processor products 88000 Architecture compatible Emphasis: High integration Low cost Low power Modular design Compatible with 68300 family I/O modules Leverages 88110 technology, tools, and software" *opinion* that is not an announcement, and if you can tell me from that what they'll look like and whether or not they'll be competitive with other parts on the market whenever they come out, I am imnpressed. Just for calibration: 1) The 68040 was described (not announced) at Hot Chips, 6/89. 2) In 1986 Motorola presentations, the 78000 (previous number of 88000) had the following schedule: Alpha parts July 1987 Beta Oct 87 Production (200-500 sets) April 88 MC Production July 88 The foils also say (exact quote): "1987 - 20 MHZ CMOS 78000 MPU and 78200 CMMU CHIP SET (13 MIPS AND 6 MFLOPS) 1989 - 30 MHZ 78000 CHIP SET (20 MIPS AND 10 MFLOPS) 1989 - A/I ORIENTED DERIVATIVE PROCESSOR AND CMMU CHIP SET (>2 MLIP) * TAG PROCESSING IN PROCESSOR * GARBAGE COLLECTION IN CMMU 1990 - VECTORIZED FLOATING POINT 1991 - GAAS INTEGER UNIT (>50 MIPS)" You may recall that the 88K was announced 2Q88, but it was about 3Q89 before many production chips were shipped, given the FP bugs. Now, this is NOT to say that Moto is bad and evil, and says things that don't happen. Vendors often have plans they believe in, and things just don't work that way, and t his happens to almost everybody, especially since customers DEMAND a 10-year roadmap, when NOBODY really knows exactly what they're going to do in 5 years, much less 10. However, the point is: the industry right now is undergoing a terrific "futures war" in which everyone outpredicts everybody else, and wonderful bubble charts are drawn to show futures. In addition, at conferences, people describe one chip set after another, each faster. The only problem is that many of them NEVER come to pass. Of things described in Hot CHips and Microprocessor Forum, within last 18 months, at least 3-4 CPUs described to eager audiences have already been cancelled before they were ever shipped, and many more had better have some Good Luck if they're going to make it soon enough to be interesting. -- -john mashey DISCLAIMER: UUCP: mash@mips.com OR {ames,decwrl,prls,pyramid}!mips!mash DDD: 408-524-7015, 524-8253 or (main number) 408-720-1700 USPS: MIPS Computer Systems, 930 E. Arques, Sunnyvale, CA 94086