Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!mcsun!unido!rzsun2.informatik.uni-hamburg.de!rzsun3.informatik.uni-hamburg.de!eibo From: eibo@rzsun3.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Eibo Thieme) Newsgroups: comp.edu Subject: Re: Automatic checking the students' answers Message-ID: Date: 22 Oct 90 11:56:16 GMT References: Sender: news@informatik.uni-hamburg.de (News) Distribution: comp Organization: University of Hamburg, FRG Lines: 90 juh@cs.hut.fi (Juha Hyv|nen) writes: >I realize I did not mention anything about the intended use of the >proposed system. We are not trying to evaluate the students' >knowledge. We are trying to make sure they do their homework (and >learn while doing it). While it is quite reassuring that you have this intent I would like to point out that in introducing new technology you should always consider its development in the future. I think any such system would eventually take over the evaluation of students, just by being such a "versatile" and "convenient" instrument. >To make sure everyone is doing their homework, it has to be checked. Here we are at the verge of philosophy of education. I don't believe it to be sensible to enforce people doing there homework. Following my main line I would say that you are accomplishing next to nothing by any such scheme, perhaps even worse. My experience and deep conviction is that You can only learn if you want to know. Luckily, this is a natural trait of humankind. If you force them to do their homework they will learn as much and as intensely as required to do it, instead of wanting to know ever more as they acquire a higher proficiency. There might be some people who would not loose their interest in learning, even under such hard conditions, and I am afraid I have to admit that there are quite a lot of those who are perfectly happy with being pressed to work. But, even if it is an arrogant position: I don't want anyone to succeed at the university who needs to be pushed forward all the time. >Presently, checking the homework is done by a person. Last spring, >over 500 students took part in the course. That meant that a total of >500 students x 5 parts x 4 questions = 10,000 answers had to be >checked (and the results registered). At the rate of checking one >answer a minute it would take over 160 hours to check all the answers. >That is one working month! I think that the time should be spent >teaching than doing a routine job that could be done by a computer. Whenever you discover anything not operable you should first think of it as wrong instead of considering a computer to do what you can't. >Could you give some examples of questions we should ask? I think your questions are alright, but they should be answerable by everyone who took the course. You could certainly devise more realistic questions where the student had to extract the formalized problem first but that's not I am up to. To ask questions in the first place is a hindrance, give your students the opportunity to show they know by acting in their environment. Offer interesting projects, give intersting problems to solve, give your students the opportunity to teach, as this makes them aware of their knowledge. Your observation in the classes might be some evidence to the current grade of motivation too. Regrettably the situation here in Hamburg is not much different. >The students could ask questions. They do not. >The students are asked questions. They do not want to answer. >If the students are made to answer, even more of them tend to skip the >class. (We could start a new thread on discussing why. Here is one >answer: they are afraid of being wrong and letting everybody to know >it. "It is better the keep quiet and let everybody THINK you do not >know the answer than to open your mouth and make sure they KNOW that." >I believe this shyness (?) among us Finns has been discussed in some >newsgroups -- maybe in soc.culture.nordic.) >Conclusion: direct interaction (with too limited resources) does > not work (with 500 Finns). I believe there is much work to be done to get people back to learning and I think it is extremely necessary. Our societies need knowledgeable persons, not only in science but also in business and administration. The current trend of cutting down education to the minimum with the promise of further education in the working-place will leave people with only very specialised knowledge, global understanding thought of as unnecessary ballast. There should be countermeasures. Limited resources are to be fought against and the low motivation of students has to be raised. eibo -- eibo Thieme * FB Informatik eibo@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de * Universitaet Hamburg ..!uunet!mcsun!unido!fbihh!eibo * Schlueterstr. 70 PHONE: +40 4123-5660 * D-2000 Hamburg 13 (FRG)