Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!usc!apple!voder!nsc!amdahl!JUTS!duts!kls30 From: kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware Subject: Re: New Macintosh Strategy Keywords: Macintosh Message-ID: <2eBi026n031i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 30 Oct 90 18:47:43 GMT References: <306@cti1.UUCP> <272CAF47.16091@orion.oac.uci.edu> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) Distribution: na Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 121 In article <272CAF47.16091@orion.oac.uci.edu> ajauch@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alex Jauch) writes: >In <306@cti1.UUCP> greg@cti1.UUCP (Greg Fabian) writes: > > >> They say that Apple is trying to become more price competitive >>with ISA PC prices. Of course that will never happen because the >>Mac is still a closed box - sure you can buy expansion boards and >>memory, and other stuff from other manufacturers, but the BIOS and >>ROMs are all Apple and they will never open those up. I can stroll >>down to the local computer store and buy a store brand 386/25 with >>4 MB RAM, 80 MB hard disk and a 14" VGA plus monitor for $2500 and >>it will blow the doors of the Mac II lc/si and come in at a cheaper >>price. > >Please define "blow the doors of(f)." An si will operate at more than >twice the speed of the 386/25 running windows. Yes, the machine is spinning >its wheels really fast, but nothing is happening as far as the user can >tell, so it's wasted. The importance of a GUI is not something I will >discuss on this group. Spinning its wheels????? More like doing faster screen draws, processing those background tasks a lot faster, and doing some paging. (Paging - you know what a Mac can't do until that vaporware System 7 shows up.) A si isn't twice the speed of a 386/25, not even in a dream. The fact that the cpu is faster makes a hell of a lot of difference. (See above.) > >> Don't get me wrong. I like the Mac. It's software is great >>and novice users can get up to speed quickly on the machine because >>you only have to learn to use the applications and not the computer >>(on an MS DOS box you have to learn the applications and MS DOS). >>It never ceases to amaze me, however, that Mac software is well >>designed from an ergonomic view but the physical design of the box >>itself sucks - you can look at a non-adjustable 9" screen for only >>so long before your eyes feel like they're about to roll out of >>their sockets. They didn't change that with the Classic. > >I have a B.S. (almost) in computer science and definately not a "novice >user" by any stretch of the imagination. However, I find DOS applications >require more effort on my part to use and learn than Mac ones do. As to >the shape of the Mac, it's such a trademark shape by now that Apple would >have been killed if they had abandoned it. Besides, I LOVE my SE30, I >take it everywhere and 9" is plenty big for me. ---------------- You must like either sitting 2" from the screen or squinting. I do have a B.S. in Elec. Engr./Computer Engr. currently working to complete my M.S. in the same and have worked in the field several years. For engineering type work a Mac plainly sucks. Macs are great if you never want to see the operating system, or do quick and dirty programming I WANT a command line somewhere, somehow, because I DON"T always want a mouse. A mouse is not the ultimate solution!!! I have found that programming a Mac is harder than X11 or any other environment I've been in. >> I've always regarded Apple as a somewhat greedy company. This >>new marketing tack seems to make Apple more price competitive (if >>you are looking at IBM, Compaq, and other expensive PC >>manufacturers), but I am not convinced. Is everyone else? >> > >Welcome to America buddy. Everyone has the God given right to be as greedy >as they can get away with. Do you really think any company is not in business >to make money? Not a for profit, publically owned one at any rate. I think >Apple is making a concentrated effort to lower prices. If their products are >too expensive for what they do, don't buy one. > >Alex Jauch A Mac is generic 680x0 hardware. There is nothing special, new, inovative, spectacular about Mac hardware. The software is what Apple is charging you for. The reason Macs are so high is that Apple has enjoyed artificially high margins because they have had a virtual monopoly on GUI's and would like to remain that way. Macs are not easy to set up once you get into the II line because you have configuration options, just like all other systems on the market. So if you want expansion options ease of setup goes away (usually). Apple used to pride itself on plug and play. Can't do that anymore unless you stick to low end machines or to Apple peripherals which are also priced artificially high. Got that Apple name on em' don't ya know. Apple is not trying to lower its prices. If it was you would find them doing something besides repackaging old harware in new cases and trying to pass it off as a new product. There are several companies working on clean room versions of Mac ROMs. This is the same approach used to clone IBM PC's. I won't go into details but, IT IS legal to write compatible ROM code and OS as long as you follow certain guidelines. To avoid look and feel lawsuits all they have to do is get a lic. from Xerox for their interface. Apple can't sue Xerox; wouldn't be too wise to try. 8-{ Since Apple it was not trying to restrict trade when Xerox took them to court. 1. Macs WILL get cheaper or Apple WILL start lose market share to cheaper and more powerful systems, GUI or NO GUI. 2. Windows and the NeXT WILL NOT go away. They will slowly erode marketshare until Apple puts its prices in line with the rest of the industry. May take a while. (Windows is selling very well.) 3. Mac clones WILL come sooner or later and that WILL definitely piss Apple off. Apple will lower prices. Peripherals will get cheaper. -This is what happened in the IBM market. >-- >Alex Jauch >*ajauch@bonnie.ics.uci.edu |"If all you have is a hammer, then the whole* >*ajauch@orion.oac.uci.edu |world looks like a nail" -- Stolen * -- /* -The opinions expressed are my own, not my employers. */ /* For I can only express my own opinions. */ /* */ /* Kent L. Shephard : email - kls30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com */