Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!ajauch From: ajauch@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alex Jauch) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware Subject: Re: New Macintosh Strategy Keywords: Macintosh Message-ID: <2730569E.19505@orion.oac.uci.edu> Date: 1 Nov 90 17:08:45 GMT References: <306@cti1.UUCP> <272CAF47.16091@orion.oac.uci.edu> <2eBi026n031i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Distribution: na Organization: University of California, Irvine Lines: 120 In <2eBi026n031i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> kls30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Kent L Shephard) writes: >In article <272CAF47.16091@orion.oac.uci.edu> ajauch@orion.oac.uci.edu (Alex Jauch) writes: >>In <306@cti1.UUCP> greg@cti1.UUCP (Greg Fabian) writes: >> >> >>> They say that Apple is trying to become more price competitive >>>with ISA PC prices. Of course that will never happen because the >>>Mac is still a closed box - sure you can buy expansion boards and >>>memory, and other stuff from other manufacturers, but the BIOS and >>>ROMs are all Apple and they will never open those up. I can stroll >>>down to the local computer store and buy a store brand 386/25 with >>>4 MB RAM, 80 MB hard disk and a 14" VGA plus monitor for $2500 and >>>it will blow the doors of the Mac II lc/si and come in at a cheaper >>>price. >> >>Please define "blow the doors of(f)." An si will operate at more than >>twice the speed of the 386/25 running windows. Yes, the machine is spinning >>its wheels really fast, but nothing is happening as far as the user can >>tell, so it's wasted. The importance of a GUI is not something I will >>discuss on this group. >Spinning its wheels????? More like doing faster screen draws, processing >those background tasks a lot faster, and doing some paging. (Paging - >you know what a Mac can't do until that vaporware System 7 shows up.) >A si isn't twice the speed of a 386/25, not even in a dream. The fact >that the cpu is faster makes a hell of a lot of difference. (See above.) I would like to know exactly what hardware and software you are talking about. I have a Mac II (about the speed of a LC I presume) and a Zenith 386/25 (a dx notice). I am running System 6.0.5 and Word and Excel on the Mac and Windows 3 with Word and Excel. The Zenith is notably slower in all operations, including cut and paste, application switching, screen redraw and startup. Am I doing something wrong with Windows or have you never actually tried comparing them? Please note that I feel this verifies my claim that Windows sucks, since it does not install its self properly :-). >For engineering type work a Mac plainly sucks. Macs are great if you >never want to see the operating system, or do quick and dirty programming This plainly is not true. Put a ci with a 25" 8 bit monitor on an engineer's desk and watch his eyes light up. Try to do 3D color rendering in Windows. >I WANT a command line somewhere, somehow, because I DON"T always want a >mouse. A mouse is not the ultimate solution!!! >I have found that programming a Mac is harder than X11 or any other >environment I've been in. >>> I've always regarded Apple as a somewhat greedy company. This >>>new marketing tack seems to make Apple more price competitive (if >>>you are looking at IBM, Compaq, and other expensive PC >>>manufacturers), but I am not convinced. Is everyone else? >>> >> >>Welcome to America buddy. Everyone has the God given right to be as greedy >>as they can get away with. Do you really think any company is not in business >>to make money? Not a for profit, publically owned one at any rate. I think >>Apple is making a concentrated effort to lower prices. If their products are >>too expensive for what they do, don't buy one. >> >>Alex Jauch >A Mac is generic 680x0 hardware. There is nothing special, new, >inovative, spectacular about Mac hardware. The software is what Apple >is charging you for. The reason Macs are so high is that Apple has >enjoyed artificially high margins because they have had a virtual >monopoly on GUI's and would like to remain that way. >Macs are not easy to set up once you get into the II line because >you have configuration options, just like all other systems on the market. >So if you want expansion options ease of setup goes away (usually). >Apple used to pride itself on plug and play. Can't do that anymore >unless you stick to low end machines or to Apple peripherals which are >also priced artificially high. Got that Apple name on em' don't ya know. This is just plain silly. Try installing a network card into a Mac. Put it in, run the install on the software. End of story. Install a new Hard Drive. Put it in, format it (if neccessary). End of story. Try putting new memory. Put it in. End of story. The Mac II series is the easiest computer platform to work on I've ever supported. Much easier than the compact series because it is so hard to get those durn cases off. >Apple is not trying to lower its prices. If it was you would find them >doing something besides repackaging old harware in new cases and trying >to pass it off as a new product. Are you honestly asserting that the Compaq 386sx is a blinding new innovation? Or how about that daring bit of work, the 55sx? What a gamble that was! The only really new machines these days are the 486's (Apple is working on that one) and the multi-processors from Compaq. >1. Macs WILL get cheaper or Apple WILL start lose market share to cheaper > and more powerful systems, GUI or NO GUI. Define more powerful. I'd love to see a micro with more horsepower than the FX. >2. Windows and the NeXT WILL NOT go away. They will slowly erode > marketshare until Apple puts its prices in line with the rest > of the industry. May take a while. (Windows is selling very well.) Beause everything else for the PC SUCKS!! Wake up, Windows is not competion for Apple, it is imitation. The Windows interface is soo poor it is no competition for Apple. OS/2 is the only competitor. >3. Mac clones WILL come sooner or later and that WILL definitely piss > Apple off. Apple will lower prices. Peripherals will get cheaper. > -This is what happened in the IBM market. I would love this but I doubt it. More likely look for license agreements. -- Alex Jauch *ajauch@bonnie.ics.uci.edu |"If all you have is a hammer, then the whole* *ajauch@orion.oac.uci.edu |world looks like a nail" -- Stolen *